Reliable 6.0L 2500HD Towing Cam Mods?
09-12-2021, 02:37 PM
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Reliable 6.0L 2500HD Towing Cam Mods?
Hello everybody. I’ve read a ton of threads about the 6.0 and towing modifications and have learned a lot. I think I have a basic recipe for what I’m after thanks to the forum, but was hoping for some confirmation or suggestions on any details I’m missing.
I’ve got a 2002 4wd regular cab 2500HD with the LQ4 6.0 and NV4500. I’m on stock 245 tires with 4.10 gears. I have had a Black Bear 91+ tune (I think that’s what they called it) as well for the past 15k miles. The motor has 217k miles and I believe it’s getting tired. I don’t use this truck too much but when I do it’s often towing, and the trailer is heavy about 10k+. The stock engine has been good to me and I’ve never had to address any internals.
As I was looking into freshening the engine up, I ran into another 2002 6.0 motor with 101k miles, so I bought it. My plan is to throw some reliable performance parts at this “new” motor to make it tow better while maintaining it’s reliability. The truck rarely sees high RPM except when going up long hills when traveling out of state. Understanding it isn’t an 8.1 or a diesel I want the truck to be a reliable back-up truck to our 2019 3500HD Duramax.
The cam that I have:
Crane Cams 1449051
Degrees Duration @ .050" Intake/Exhaust: 210/218
Advertised Degrees Duration Intake/Exhaust: 272/280
Degrees Lobe Separation: 116
Gross Lift Intake/Exhaust: .551/.551
This appears identical to the Vinci 080 Ultra Torque cam.
Are the LS6 valve springs reliable for this cam lift? It appears they are, although some have mentioned the PAC 1218 springs.
Since I’m already inside what else should I replace/improve on? Timing chain/gears? Oil pump? Lifters? I don’t want to spend a ton of money on this but want it to work well. I’ve recently bought a bunch of new GM parts like water pump, rear cover, pilot bearing and some other non-performance parts that I was intending on using on the ”old” engine. I’ll put these on the “new” engine. My goal is to not have to go back inside for another 100k miles. What do you all suggest? Thank you.
-Scott
I’ve got a 2002 4wd regular cab 2500HD with the LQ4 6.0 and NV4500. I’m on stock 245 tires with 4.10 gears. I have had a Black Bear 91+ tune (I think that’s what they called it) as well for the past 15k miles. The motor has 217k miles and I believe it’s getting tired. I don’t use this truck too much but when I do it’s often towing, and the trailer is heavy about 10k+. The stock engine has been good to me and I’ve never had to address any internals.
As I was looking into freshening the engine up, I ran into another 2002 6.0 motor with 101k miles, so I bought it. My plan is to throw some reliable performance parts at this “new” motor to make it tow better while maintaining it’s reliability. The truck rarely sees high RPM except when going up long hills when traveling out of state. Understanding it isn’t an 8.1 or a diesel I want the truck to be a reliable back-up truck to our 2019 3500HD Duramax.
The cam that I have:
Crane Cams 1449051
Degrees Duration @ .050" Intake/Exhaust: 210/218
Advertised Degrees Duration Intake/Exhaust: 272/280
Degrees Lobe Separation: 116
Gross Lift Intake/Exhaust: .551/.551
This appears identical to the Vinci 080 Ultra Torque cam.
Are the LS6 valve springs reliable for this cam lift? It appears they are, although some have mentioned the PAC 1218 springs.
Since I’m already inside what else should I replace/improve on? Timing chain/gears? Oil pump? Lifters? I don’t want to spend a ton of money on this but want it to work well. I’ve recently bought a bunch of new GM parts like water pump, rear cover, pilot bearing and some other non-performance parts that I was intending on using on the ”old” engine. I’ll put these on the “new” engine. My goal is to not have to go back inside for another 100k miles. What do you all suggest? Thank you.
-Scott
09-12-2021, 08:09 PM
#2
That camshaft should be okay, it should add a decent amount of power. Personally I would get larger injectors as well because the stock units would likely be at their limits with minor bolt on's before the camshaft. Going to 8.1 injectors or flex fuel injectors from the same era trucks would be plenty, those are 31 and 33lb/hr compared to the stock 25lb/hr that it currently has.
I'm in the if it's not broke, don't touch it with these engines. The stock timing chain and gears are just fine, they even have floppiness to them when brand new. Get a new camshaft retainer plate though, you need one of those because it's got an oil seal on the back side.
Stock oil pump is more than good enough for this as well. High volume pumps are never needed and high pressure pumps aren't required.
Shave the cylinder heads a little bit at a machine shop, that will bump compression and add a little horsepower. Get a in person tune and it should be great. You'll be waiting forever if you want black bear to do the tuning through emails.
I'm in the if it's not broke, don't touch it with these engines. The stock timing chain and gears are just fine, they even have floppiness to them when brand new. Get a new camshaft retainer plate though, you need one of those because it's got an oil seal on the back side.
Stock oil pump is more than good enough for this as well. High volume pumps are never needed and high pressure pumps aren't required.
Shave the cylinder heads a little bit at a machine shop, that will bump compression and add a little horsepower. Get a in person tune and it should be great. You'll be waiting forever if you want black bear to do the tuning through emails.
09-13-2021, 08:28 AM
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That camshaft should be okay, it should add a decent amount of power. Personally I would get larger injectors as well because the stock units would likely be at their limits with minor bolt on's before the camshaft. Going to 8.1 injectors or flex fuel injectors from the same era trucks would be plenty, those are 31 and 33lb/hr compared to the stock 25lb/hr that it currently has.
I'm in the if it's not broke, don't touch it with these engines. The stock timing chain and gears are just fine, they even have floppiness to them when brand new. Get a new camshaft retainer plate though, you need one of those because it's got an oil seal on the back side.
Stock oil pump is more than good enough for this as well. High volume pumps are never needed and high pressure pumps aren't required.
Shave the cylinder heads a little bit at a machine shop, that will bump compression and add a little horsepower. Get a in person tune and it should be great. You'll be waiting forever if you want black bear to do the tuning through emails.
I'm in the if it's not broke, don't touch it with these engines. The stock timing chain and gears are just fine, they even have floppiness to them when brand new. Get a new camshaft retainer plate though, you need one of those because it's got an oil seal on the back side.
Stock oil pump is more than good enough for this as well. High volume pumps are never needed and high pressure pumps aren't required.
Shave the cylinder heads a little bit at a machine shop, that will bump compression and add a little horsepower. Get a in person tune and it should be great. You'll be waiting forever if you want black bear to do the tuning through emails.
Do I NEED injectors? I had read that I'd be near the upper limit of the 6.0 injectors, but still with parameters. Where's a good place to get good 8.1L injectors? I know there's counterfeit injectors commonly available.
Good to know the timing chain/gears and oil pump will work fine. I didn't know about the cam retainer plate, so I'll definitely replace.
I probably won't take anything to the machine shop. I was hoping to find a local shop in central Florida to tune the truck. I'm sure they'll be super pumped to tune my old beater truck next to all the nice Camaros and Vettes. LOL.
Thanks again for the advice. This area of the forum doesn't seem very active.
-Scott
09-13-2021, 04:38 PM
#4
Hello everybody. I’ve read a ton of threads about the 6.0 and towing modifications and have learned a lot. I think I have a basic recipe for what I’m after thanks to the forum, but was hoping for some confirmation or suggestions on any details I’m missing.
I’ve got a 2002 4wd regular cab 2500HD with the LQ4 6.0 and NV4500. I’m on stock 245 tires with 4.10 gears. I have had a Black Bear 91+ tune (I think that’s what they called it) as well for the past 15k miles. The motor has 217k miles and I believe it’s getting tired. I don’t use this truck too much but when I do it’s often towing, and the trailer is heavy about 10k+. The stock engine has been good to me and I’ve never had to address any internals.
As I was looking into freshening the engine up, I ran into another 2002 6.0 motor with 101k miles, so I bought it. My plan is to throw some reliable performance parts at this “new” motor to make it tow better while maintaining it’s reliability. The truck rarely sees high RPM except when going up long hills when traveling out of state. Understanding it isn’t an 8.1 or a diesel I want the truck to be a reliable back-up truck to our 2019 3500HD Duramax.
The cam that I have:
Crane Cams 1449051
Degrees Duration @ .050" Intake/Exhaust: 210/218
Advertised Degrees Duration Intake/Exhaust: 272/280
Degrees Lobe Separation: 116
Gross Lift Intake/Exhaust: .551/.551
This appears identical to the Vinci 080 Ultra Torque cam.
Are the LS6 valve springs reliable for this cam lift? It appears they are, although some have mentioned the PAC 1218 springs.
Since I’m already inside what else should I replace/improve on? Timing chain/gears? Oil pump? Lifters? I don’t want to spend a ton of money on this but want it to work well. I’ve recently bought a bunch of new GM parts like water pump, rear cover, pilot bearing and some other non-performance parts that I was intending on using on the ”old” engine. I’ll put these on the “new” engine. My goal is to not have to go back inside for another 100k miles. What do you all suggest? Thank you.
-Scott
I’ve got a 2002 4wd regular cab 2500HD with the LQ4 6.0 and NV4500. I’m on stock 245 tires with 4.10 gears. I have had a Black Bear 91+ tune (I think that’s what they called it) as well for the past 15k miles. The motor has 217k miles and I believe it’s getting tired. I don’t use this truck too much but when I do it’s often towing, and the trailer is heavy about 10k+. The stock engine has been good to me and I’ve never had to address any internals.
As I was looking into freshening the engine up, I ran into another 2002 6.0 motor with 101k miles, so I bought it. My plan is to throw some reliable performance parts at this “new” motor to make it tow better while maintaining it’s reliability. The truck rarely sees high RPM except when going up long hills when traveling out of state. Understanding it isn’t an 8.1 or a diesel I want the truck to be a reliable back-up truck to our 2019 3500HD Duramax.
The cam that I have:
Crane Cams 1449051
Degrees Duration @ .050" Intake/Exhaust: 210/218
Advertised Degrees Duration Intake/Exhaust: 272/280
Degrees Lobe Separation: 116
Gross Lift Intake/Exhaust: .551/.551
This appears identical to the Vinci 080 Ultra Torque cam.
Are the LS6 valve springs reliable for this cam lift? It appears they are, although some have mentioned the PAC 1218 springs.
Since I’m already inside what else should I replace/improve on? Timing chain/gears? Oil pump? Lifters? I don’t want to spend a ton of money on this but want it to work well. I’ve recently bought a bunch of new GM parts like water pump, rear cover, pilot bearing and some other non-performance parts that I was intending on using on the ”old” engine. I’ll put these on the “new” engine. My goal is to not have to go back inside for another 100k miles. What do you all suggest? Thank you.
-Scott
With the cam swapped it made 311.75 HP @ 5200 rpm and 347.82 lb ft @ 3900 rpm. So it gained around 28 hp and 24 lb ft at peak. The torque stays above 330 lb ft from 3250 through 4750 or so. It's gains are nearly the same across the entire curve as what it nets at peak over the stock LQ4 cam so it has its merit. These numbers are all off a dynoject but its the same dyno for both tests.
I know this guy didn't change injectors from stock truck ones so take what you get from there. This combo also had stock exhaust manifolds in both cases.
I would change only the bare minimum other than the cam and valve springs. You do not need pushrods, or trunion "upgrade" trash, or an aftermarket oil pump or anything for what you want to do. If your stock lifters are quiet..... reuse them. If you have a you pull it yard near you then grab some flex fuel injectors out of an L59 5.3 powered Tahoe orYukon.
Cam, springs, maybe injectors, done.
09-13-2021, 06:20 PM
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So I replied after the first response but have no idea where it went.
Both of these responses are encouraging. I suppose I'll leave the motor alone for now except for the cam and LS6 valve springs initially. I was also unsure as to replacing lifters having not heard the engine run, only thinking it would be easier on a stand. If I'm not replacing the lifters then I'll leave the heads intact for now.
Will the stock injectors flow enough to get me started or should I just bite the bullet for 8.1L or L59 injectors? Do either of you have a good source for these other than a boneyard? I know that counterfeit injectors are out there,
And I'll also have to find an in-person tuner here in central Florida...
Both of these responses are encouraging. I suppose I'll leave the motor alone for now except for the cam and LS6 valve springs initially. I was also unsure as to replacing lifters having not heard the engine run, only thinking it would be easier on a stand. If I'm not replacing the lifters then I'll leave the heads intact for now.
Will the stock injectors flow enough to get me started or should I just bite the bullet for 8.1L or L59 injectors? Do either of you have a good source for these other than a boneyard? I know that counterfeit injectors are out there,
And I'll also have to find an in-person tuner here in central Florida...
09-13-2021, 07:22 PM
#6
So I replied after the first response but have no idea where it went.
Both of these responses are encouraging. I suppose I'll leave the motor alone for now except for the cam and LS6 valve springs initially. I was also unsure as to replacing lifters having not heard the engine run, only thinking it would be easier on a stand. If I'm not replacing the lifters then I'll leave the heads intact for now.
Will the stock injectors flow enough to get me started or should I just bite the bullet for 8.1L or L59 injectors? Do either of you have a good source for these other than a boneyard? I know that counterfeit injectors are out there,
And I'll also have to find an in-person tuner here in central Florida...
Both of these responses are encouraging. I suppose I'll leave the motor alone for now except for the cam and LS6 valve springs initially. I was also unsure as to replacing lifters having not heard the engine run, only thinking it would be easier on a stand. If I'm not replacing the lifters then I'll leave the heads intact for now.
Will the stock injectors flow enough to get me started or should I just bite the bullet for 8.1L or L59 injectors? Do either of you have a good source for these other than a boneyard? I know that counterfeit injectors are out there,
And I'll also have to find an in-person tuner here in central Florida...
The Delco ones on Rockauto are $72 each if that works better for you lol.
09-14-2021, 04:36 PM
#7
Before going turbo, I added a Comp Cams 54-452-11 cam (212/216 @ .050 and .520/.524 lift, 115 LSA). It added torque everywhere and was noticeable however, don't think it will transform the truck for towing.
217k miles is not that much. My LQ4 has 314k on it and still makes 187-196 psi cranking compression. I keep thinking mine is tired, but it keeps surprising me. Best mod for towing was adding a turbo ($$$), cheaper than buying a new truck if your truck is still in good shape.
217k miles is not that much. My LQ4 has 314k on it and still makes 187-196 psi cranking compression. I keep thinking mine is tired, but it keeps surprising me. Best mod for towing was adding a turbo ($$$), cheaper than buying a new truck if your truck is still in good shape.
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09-17-2021, 01:59 AM
#8
Before going turbo, I added a Comp Cams 54-452-11 cam (212/216 @ .050 and .520/.524 lift, 115 LSA). It added torque everywhere and was noticeable however, don't think it will transform the truck for towing.
217k miles is not that much. My LQ4 has 314k on it and still makes 187-196 psi cranking compression. I keep thinking mine is tired, but it keeps surprising me. Best mod for towing was adding a turbo ($$$), cheaper than buying a new truck if your truck is still in good shape.
217k miles is not that much. My LQ4 has 314k on it and still makes 187-196 psi cranking compression. I keep thinking mine is tired, but it keeps surprising me. Best mod for towing was adding a turbo ($$$), cheaper than buying a new truck if your truck is still in good shape.
I agree!
I towed a bunch every weekend with my 2000 1500 that had a turbo LQ4.
Now I have a 2500hd with 380k miles and building a 370 for it along with a BW S475/96 turbo.
In my 2000 1500 just 6-7psi at 2000 rpms/70mph was plenty to keep the torque converter locked in 4th (4L80E) towing 7000# in the hills. It didn't build up any crazy heat or anything. Used that setup for several years and put 330,000 miles on that same etup before a lifter took out my isky cam.
KBracing front mount S475/83 with W/A intercooler.
09-17-2021, 04:33 AM
#9
A high quality tow converter would be worth it. My 1500 is a 12.5cr 370 with 706 heads.
I have a PATC triple disc tow converter. I pulled our camper last year through NC and TN without any issues.
I have the tune set to lock in m2 and m3 and that proved useful pulling through Asheville.
If you don’t want to boost it, I would do 706 heads with a small duration camshaft.
I have a PATC triple disc tow converter. I pulled our camper last year through NC and TN without any issues.
I have the tune set to lock in m2 and m3 and that proved useful pulling through Asheville.
If you don’t want to boost it, I would do 706 heads with a small duration camshaft.
09-17-2021, 08:27 PM
#10
I'm locking my stock converter in 2nd 3rd and 4th in tow haul mode. Have the minimum rpm at 2300 rpms so the next gear shift and TCC lockup never falls below 2300. With torque management on the shifts and TCC staying locked it never builds any heat up towing.
I have a billet towing converter with stock stall speed for my built 4l80e going in with the turbo 370. So interested to see how this works out. Going from a 285/75/16 to a 265/75/16 tire also.
Going to dyno it next week. Planning on making WOT pulls from 1500-6500 rpms and then set dyno at 70mph and keep it in 4th with TCC locked to see what kinda HP/TQ it makes there at 2300 rpms.
Have a Good before/after comparison with some documentation.
Then it's turbo time.
After lots of looking and thinking. I'm gonna try the cam motion 214/214 .570/.553 113+3.
Pistons get here Monday and it should end up right at 9.85 CR with these CNC'd 243 heads.
I have a billet towing converter with stock stall speed for my built 4l80e going in with the turbo 370. So interested to see how this works out. Going from a 285/75/16 to a 265/75/16 tire also.
Going to dyno it next week. Planning on making WOT pulls from 1500-6500 rpms and then set dyno at 70mph and keep it in 4th with TCC locked to see what kinda HP/TQ it makes there at 2300 rpms.
Have a Good before/after comparison with some documentation.
Then it's turbo time.
After lots of looking and thinking. I'm gonna try the cam motion 214/214 .570/.553 113+3.
Pistons get here Monday and it should end up right at 9.85 CR with these CNC'd 243 heads.