Bullet style intercooler set up build
05-11-2006, 01:34 PM
#11
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With change in area stated above, you'll see roughly a 64% reduction in flow velocity ignoring frictional losses, assuming steady state, blah blah blah. What pressure drop does that correspond to? I would just apply Bernoulli's across a streamline to get an estimate. How much boost are you running and what are your IAT's?
05-11-2006, 02:09 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Mikegyver
The cross-sectional area of a 2.5" ID tube is 4.9sq. in. The cross sectional area of 125 3/8" ID tubes is 13.8 sq. in. That will slow the charge way down through the cooler and give plenty of time to transfer heat. You must have a piece of 6" schedule 40 pipe laying around. That is the only reason I can come up with why you are using such thick walled tubing. You definitely don't need any heavier than 16 ga. Are you thinking thick for road debris protection? If you insulate it, and cover the insulation with light gauge aluminum, it will still weigh much less than sch. 40 pipe, and have ding protection, too.
I was at UW Madison and made a trade of free on site CNC training for a free section of 6" OD pipe.
05-11-2006, 02:12 PM
#14
Originally Posted by vanillagorilla
With change in area stated above, you'll see roughly a 64% reduction in flow velocity ignoring frictional losses, assuming steady state, blah blah blah. What pressure drop does that correspond to? I would just apply Bernoulli's across a streamline to get an estimate. How much boost are you running and what are your IAT's?
My IATs run upwards of 180 degrees when ambient is above 75-80F.
05-11-2006, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by vanillagorilla
With change in area stated above, you'll see roughly a 64% reduction in flow velocity ignoring frictional losses, assuming steady state, blah blah blah. What pressure drop does that correspond to? I would just apply Bernoulli's across a streamline to get an estimate. How much boost are you running and what are your IAT's?
HOLY ****, thank you, Im not the only person on here that knows fluid dynamics.... whats your story, I'm 3 years into the mechanical engineering program here at UWP...
anyhew, reduction in area is definitely going to cause your boost to go down, the trurbo to spool up slower and more heat will be interduce by the bottleneck in the system....as far as surface area of those tubes, friction is NOT negliable, the more surface area there more wall shear that will be introduce, basically flow slows down as it gets closer to the wall, to the point where it actually stops for a thin layer inside of the pipe, surface roughness plays a part in this, so some aluminum tube would be good, but how the heck you gona make this thing? thats a hell of a lot of tubes to weld in and seal up, isnt there somethign you can buy and piece together?or what if you just put a radiator in line? alumin is good at transfering heat, as is copper and brass, check out the plumbing departments, they have that flexible copper tubing, maybe you could make a coil of that and just run around thru it?
keep the stuff comming and ill keep analysizing the **** outa it, I gave up on those twin turbo monkeys and there wooden log headers
05-12-2006, 12:45 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by duwem
keep the stuff comming and ill keep analysizing the **** outa it, I gave up on those twin turbo monkeys and there wooden log headers
05-12-2006, 05:18 AM
#17
Originally Posted by MrXerox
Here we go again... Not many people here willing to listen to a genius with a slow truck preaching about what works and what does not...Your sig contains enough clues to show you are clueless...
I happen to be and engineer as well, just not a fluid engineer. My background is in CNC machining/programming, fixture design, robotics and such.
I definitely appreciate anyone's input as long as it is true and not dreamed up, hell some of the dreamed up stuff is great too.
Sometimes you just have to build something to see how well your concept works.
I learned a long time ago you never know everything in your field, someone always knows more in some area than you. Another thing I learned, calculations in theory are not always right but you have to start somewhere.
I have seen countless tool salesmen come in with the latest and greatest tooling that was supposed to perform at a given level and fell flat on it face and exploded when actually put into practice, the opposite sometimes held true as well.
What I need to know about my design is this...in theory given all the things I have talked about what will work and what should I change??
Do I need to go bigger ID tube diameter?
Will that give me better flow as a trade off for better heat transfer?
What type of flow drop do you see with traditional intercooler cores?
Would I be better off going to an oval or flattened tube for flow?
I have seen tests that show a flattened tube with the same cross sectional surface area will outflow a round tube in exhaust header application on MotoGp and Superbikes, also in Indy car racing. Yet most mfg's don't use the design, neither do the race teams. So what gives?
Please don't just bash what I am trying to build, help me developed it, that is why this site was created I believe. A knowledge base that makes us all smarter and better than we really are!
I want to build this myself, and design if possible, its something I like to do, a personel challenge if you will.
05-12-2006, 07:28 AM
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First off, Duwem, its time to cool your jets. Have you ever seen the inside of a regular intercooler? Here is a picture of a tube and fin design.. http://www.are.com.au/Inter/hotchilli/hci01hb.jpg
There are always trade offs, you want an increased surface area to slow the air chage down to increase heat transfer time, and yes, increase of surface area does increase surface friction, but it also increases heat transfer by a significant amount. (just look at the above picture) Surface friction and shear losses become less of a concern at lower charge velocities, hence again, the increased area. Lastly surface roughness will aid in boosting the heat transfer rate vs. a polished surface.
And as far as people using "log" manifolds, one day you will understand (as many engineering students have when they entered the real world) that sometimes you can't build/design the optimal design due to cost/space/schedule constraints. And that the % losses in the log design vs. a equal length 4-to-1 design are minimal. There are many ways to skin a cat, one day you will figure that out.
Jeff
There are always trade offs, you want an increased surface area to slow the air chage down to increase heat transfer time, and yes, increase of surface area does increase surface friction, but it also increases heat transfer by a significant amount. (just look at the above picture) Surface friction and shear losses become less of a concern at lower charge velocities, hence again, the increased area. Lastly surface roughness will aid in boosting the heat transfer rate vs. a polished surface.
And as far as people using "log" manifolds, one day you will understand (as many engineering students have when they entered the real world) that sometimes you can't build/design the optimal design due to cost/space/schedule constraints. And that the % losses in the log design vs. a equal length 4-to-1 design are minimal. There are many ways to skin a cat, one day you will figure that out.
Jeff
05-12-2006, 08:02 AM
#19
Originally Posted by unklej
First off, Duwem, its time to cool your jets. Have you ever seen the inside of a regular intercooler? Here is a picture of a tube and fin design.. http://www.are.com.au/Inter/hotchilli/hci01hb.jpg
There are always trade offs, you want an increased surface area to slow the air chage down to increase heat transfer time, and yes, increase of surface area does increase surface friction, but it also increases heat transfer by a significant amount. (just look at the above picture) Surface friction and shear losses become less of a concern at lower charge velocities, hence again, the increased area. Lastly surface roughness will aid in boosting the heat transfer rate vs. a polished surface.
And as far as people using "log" manifolds, one day you will understand (as many engineering students have when they entered the real world) that sometimes you can't build/design the optimal design due to cost/space/schedule constraints. And that the % losses in the log design vs. a equal length 4-to-1 design are minimal. There are many ways to skin a cat, one day you will figure that out.
Jeff
There are always trade offs, you want an increased surface area to slow the air chage down to increase heat transfer time, and yes, increase of surface area does increase surface friction, but it also increases heat transfer by a significant amount. (just look at the above picture) Surface friction and shear losses become less of a concern at lower charge velocities, hence again, the increased area. Lastly surface roughness will aid in boosting the heat transfer rate vs. a polished surface.
And as far as people using "log" manifolds, one day you will understand (as many engineering students have when they entered the real world) that sometimes you can't build/design the optimal design due to cost/space/schedule constraints. And that the % losses in the log design vs. a equal length 4-to-1 design are minimal. There are many ways to skin a cat, one day you will figure that out.
Jeff
I'm going to draw it up using .5" and .75" tubing to see what type of difference in overall surface area I get.
Lets please this thread on track, I really don't want to weed through egos and people bashing to get to the good stuff. Thanks.
