Damn, WTF Whipple?
01-31-2008 | 01:58 PM
#41
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
From: Queens, NY
Yes, but i could spray AND be supercharged if i wanted too..
Dont get me wrong i love what this 2.3L compressor has done to wake this truck up....sometimes i think its for the better that I cant run more boost because I would have probably blown the damn thing up by now. I cant complain that a little over 6lbs has taken this big as truck past the 500lb/ft of TRQ mark and shaved about 3 seconds off my 1/4 mile times.
Dont get me wrong i love what this 2.3L compressor has done to wake this truck up....sometimes i think its for the better that I cant run more boost because I would have probably blown the damn thing up by now. I cant complain that a little over 6lbs has taken this big as truck past the 500lb/ft of TRQ mark and shaved about 3 seconds off my 1/4 mile times.
I'm probably putting spray on the boosted 346 vette too......hell as much for eye candy and WTF factor than regular use, the stupid thing is probably gonna be around 8 at the wheels as is with boost and meth (unfortunately my buddies sold their dynojet sunday, and they have some new dynapak thingie on its way by the end of feb) nitrous does have a cooling factor that those PD blowers definetely can appreciate even more so than a centrifigual...It just sucks that the whipple is close to maxed as-is and whipple never really supported those of us (ie the majority) who want to push the envelope with our vehicles. Hell options for the 8.1 are limited at best as well. At least in the PD realm maggie an KB see this and support it.
01-31-2008 | 08:28 PM
#43
02-01-2008 | 01:19 AM
#44
Uh oh... let's not go THERE again!
Roots Blowers (Eaton) are positive displacement
Twin-Screw (Lysholm, Whipple, Autorotor) are technically compressors
The difference is in what happens to the cavities of air as they are moved through the unit. In a "positive displacement" blower the cavity of air is simply moved from the inlet to the outlet and discharged. The volumes of the cavities between the rotors and housing where this air is trapped do not change. Both rotors spin at the same rpm, they have the same number of lobes, and are both male.
The cavities of air created between the rotors of a twin screw compressor decrease in volume as they are moved from the inlet to the outlet. The rotor driven by the input shaft is female and has 5 or 6 lobes. The second rotor is male and has either 3 or 4 lobes and is overdriven by a factor based on the lobe number, either 3:5 or 2:3.
Anyway, back on subject...
The snorkel is a good idea as long as it doesn't add too much volume. Everything downstream of the throttle body sort of adds to "plenum volume" in a way, even if on the inlet side of the compressor. One of the things I learned with my 383 setup was that I should have used smaller induction plumbing between the compressor discharge and the intercooler and between the intercooler and the intake to keep the added volume minimized. I will better keep that in mind on the next fabrication effort.
Does the Whipple share the same serpentine belt as the alt/p.s./w.p.? I am at the disadvatange of never having seen the 8.1 kit in person or even good photos of it. Not sure what you had to relocate as part of the installation.
Roots Blowers (Eaton) are positive displacement
Twin-Screw (Lysholm, Whipple, Autorotor) are technically compressors
The difference is in what happens to the cavities of air as they are moved through the unit. In a "positive displacement" blower the cavity of air is simply moved from the inlet to the outlet and discharged. The volumes of the cavities between the rotors and housing where this air is trapped do not change. Both rotors spin at the same rpm, they have the same number of lobes, and are both male.
The cavities of air created between the rotors of a twin screw compressor decrease in volume as they are moved from the inlet to the outlet. The rotor driven by the input shaft is female and has 5 or 6 lobes. The second rotor is male and has either 3 or 4 lobes and is overdriven by a factor based on the lobe number, either 3:5 or 2:3.
Anyway, back on subject...
The snorkel is a good idea as long as it doesn't add too much volume. Everything downstream of the throttle body sort of adds to "plenum volume" in a way, even if on the inlet side of the compressor. One of the things I learned with my 383 setup was that I should have used smaller induction plumbing between the compressor discharge and the intercooler and between the intercooler and the intake to keep the added volume minimized. I will better keep that in mind on the next fabrication effort.
Does the Whipple share the same serpentine belt as the alt/p.s./w.p.? I am at the disadvatange of never having seen the 8.1 kit in person or even good photos of it. Not sure what you had to relocate as part of the installation.
02-01-2008 | 03:12 AM
#46
Uh oh... let's not go THERE again!
Roots Blowers (Eaton) are positive displacement
Twin-Screw (Lysholm, Whipple, Autorotor) are technically compressors
The difference is in what happens to the cavities of air as they are moved through the unit. In a "positive displacement" blower the cavity of air is simply moved from the inlet to the outlet and discharged. The volumes of the cavities between the rotors and housing where this air is trapped do not change. Both rotors spin at the same rpm, they have the same number of lobes, and are both male.
The cavities of air created between the rotors of a twin screw compressor decrease in volume as they are moved from the inlet to the outlet. The rotor driven by the input shaft is female and has 5 or 6 lobes. The second rotor is male and has either 3 or 4 lobes and is overdriven by a factor based on the lobe number, either 3:5 or 2:3.
Anyway, back on subject...
The snorkel is a good idea as long as it doesn't add too much volume. Everything downstream of the throttle body sort of adds to "plenum volume" in a way, even if on the inlet side of the compressor. One of the things I learned with my 383 setup was that I should have used smaller induction plumbing between the compressor discharge and the intercooler and between the intercooler and the intake to keep the added volume minimized. I will better keep that in mind on the next fabrication effort.
Does the Whipple share the same serpentine belt as the alt/p.s./w.p.? I am at the disadvatange of never having seen the 8.1 kit in person or even good photos of it. Not sure what you had to relocate as part of the installation.
Roots Blowers (Eaton) are positive displacement
Twin-Screw (Lysholm, Whipple, Autorotor) are technically compressors
The difference is in what happens to the cavities of air as they are moved through the unit. In a "positive displacement" blower the cavity of air is simply moved from the inlet to the outlet and discharged. The volumes of the cavities between the rotors and housing where this air is trapped do not change. Both rotors spin at the same rpm, they have the same number of lobes, and are both male.
The cavities of air created between the rotors of a twin screw compressor decrease in volume as they are moved from the inlet to the outlet. The rotor driven by the input shaft is female and has 5 or 6 lobes. The second rotor is male and has either 3 or 4 lobes and is overdriven by a factor based on the lobe number, either 3:5 or 2:3.
Anyway, back on subject...
The snorkel is a good idea as long as it doesn't add too much volume. Everything downstream of the throttle body sort of adds to "plenum volume" in a way, even if on the inlet side of the compressor. One of the things I learned with my 383 setup was that I should have used smaller induction plumbing between the compressor discharge and the intercooler and between the intercooler and the intake to keep the added volume minimized. I will better keep that in mind on the next fabrication effort.
Does the Whipple share the same serpentine belt as the alt/p.s./w.p.? I am at the disadvatange of never having seen the 8.1 kit in person or even good photos of it. Not sure what you had to relocate as part of the installation.
02-01-2008 | 03:45 AM
#47
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
From: Queens, NY
02-01-2008 | 07:07 AM
#48
Uh oh... let's not go THERE again!
Roots Blowers (Eaton) are positive displacement
Twin-Screw (Lysholm, Whipple, Autorotor) are technically compressors
The difference is in what happens to the cavities of air as they are moved through the unit. In a "positive displacement" blower the cavity of air is simply moved from the inlet to the outlet and discharged. The volumes of the cavities between the rotors and housing where this air is trapped do not change. Both rotors spin at the same rpm, they have the same number of lobes, and are both male.
The cavities of air created between the rotors of a twin screw compressor decrease in volume as they are moved from the inlet to the outlet. The rotor driven by the input shaft is female and has 5 or 6 lobes. The second rotor is male and has either 3 or 4 lobes and is overdriven by a factor based on the lobe number, either 3:5 or 2:3.
Anyway, back on subject...
The snorkel is a good idea as long as it doesn't add too much volume. Everything downstream of the throttle body sort of adds to "plenum volume" in a way, even if on the inlet side of the compressor. One of the things I learned with my 383 setup was that I should have used smaller induction plumbing between the compressor discharge and the intercooler and between the intercooler and the intake to keep the added volume minimized. I will better keep that in mind on the next fabrication effort.
Does the Whipple share the same serpentine belt as the alt/p.s./w.p.? I am at the disadvatange of never having seen the 8.1 kit in person or even good photos of it. Not sure what you had to relocate as part of the installation.
Roots Blowers (Eaton) are positive displacement
Twin-Screw (Lysholm, Whipple, Autorotor) are technically compressors
The difference is in what happens to the cavities of air as they are moved through the unit. In a "positive displacement" blower the cavity of air is simply moved from the inlet to the outlet and discharged. The volumes of the cavities between the rotors and housing where this air is trapped do not change. Both rotors spin at the same rpm, they have the same number of lobes, and are both male.
The cavities of air created between the rotors of a twin screw compressor decrease in volume as they are moved from the inlet to the outlet. The rotor driven by the input shaft is female and has 5 or 6 lobes. The second rotor is male and has either 3 or 4 lobes and is overdriven by a factor based on the lobe number, either 3:5 or 2:3.
Anyway, back on subject...
The snorkel is a good idea as long as it doesn't add too much volume. Everything downstream of the throttle body sort of adds to "plenum volume" in a way, even if on the inlet side of the compressor. One of the things I learned with my 383 setup was that I should have used smaller induction plumbing between the compressor discharge and the intercooler and between the intercooler and the intake to keep the added volume minimized. I will better keep that in mind on the next fabrication effort.
Does the Whipple share the same serpentine belt as the alt/p.s./w.p.? I am at the disadvatange of never having seen the 8.1 kit in person or even good photos of it. Not sure what you had to relocate as part of the installation.
02-01-2008 | 04:42 PM
#49
The alternator setup does sound like some weirdness. The Medium-Duty 8100 passenger-side alternator bracket comes to mind as a possible alternative, but it looks like that could create interference problems with the cold air tube.
On your setup with the A/C compresspr tucked down by the passenger side frame, the Whipple bracket sounds as if it is made to bolt right in place of the alternator, and the discharge is part of the bracket coming out from underneath and up on the passenger side of the bracket that then goes to the intercooler. The mounting pattern of the 3.3 is different than the 2.3L compressor. It has a wider and longer base. It might be possible to make an adapter plate for it to fit onto the existing Whipple bracket. That adapter would add even more to the overall height. If your truck has the tell hoose it would work. In the back there is no minimum to the needed volume of air between the throttle body and the compressor intake. In fact, if the TB bolted right to the compressor (no such lucky) that would work fine as long as there was a passage added from between to serve as bypass.
The 3.3L compressor would be large enough for the engine. Driving it becomes the real problem. Even a 2.3L compressor can work a 6-rib belt system to its very limit. It takes a lot of power to turn a supercharger and I think with the 3.3L compressor making high boost you'd have a new problem of snapping belts and busting water pumps. It makes me wonder if it's even worth attempting to change if it runs well now. I can't believe how tiny that pulley is you have on there. That's got to be what, 2 1/4"? Smaller? That size and the belt only wraps about 55% of it too. I am surprised that it doesn't have slippage problems.
On your setup with the A/C compresspr tucked down by the passenger side frame, the Whipple bracket sounds as if it is made to bolt right in place of the alternator, and the discharge is part of the bracket coming out from underneath and up on the passenger side of the bracket that then goes to the intercooler. The mounting pattern of the 3.3 is different than the 2.3L compressor. It has a wider and longer base. It might be possible to make an adapter plate for it to fit onto the existing Whipple bracket. That adapter would add even more to the overall height. If your truck has the tell hoose it would work. In the back there is no minimum to the needed volume of air between the throttle body and the compressor intake. In fact, if the TB bolted right to the compressor (no such lucky) that would work fine as long as there was a passage added from between to serve as bypass.
The 3.3L compressor would be large enough for the engine. Driving it becomes the real problem. Even a 2.3L compressor can work a 6-rib belt system to its very limit. It takes a lot of power to turn a supercharger and I think with the 3.3L compressor making high boost you'd have a new problem of snapping belts and busting water pumps. It makes me wonder if it's even worth attempting to change if it runs well now. I can't believe how tiny that pulley is you have on there. That's got to be what, 2 1/4"? Smaller? That size and the belt only wraps about 55% of it too. I am surprised that it doesn't have slippage problems.
02-02-2008 | 09:24 PM
#50
Might be worth a few bucks picking up that passenger side alternator bracket from the medium duty engine setup. Looks like it would work, its sitting right where mine is now......its just that mine projects a little more forward than that which is why the kit came with a double pulley for the water pump and a short belt.
I hear what your saying about needing more power to turn the 3.3L and the strain it would put on the rest of the 6 rib pulley setup....and you're probably right.....i didnt really think of that aspect of it to be honest with you. Maybe i will just get the exhaust and keep tweaking the tune for now. Maybe down the road a bit i will dive into some Raylar stuff.
The pulley i have on there now is the 2.75" pulley. The in my signature was the 2-5/8" or the 2-1/2"...not sure which one. Neither of those showed an increase in boost, so i put the 2.75" back on to minimize any IAT increase i was getting with the smaller pulley's.
I hear what your saying about needing more power to turn the 3.3L and the strain it would put on the rest of the 6 rib pulley setup....and you're probably right.....i didnt really think of that aspect of it to be honest with you. Maybe i will just get the exhaust and keep tweaking the tune for now. Maybe down the road a bit i will dive into some Raylar stuff.
The pulley i have on there now is the 2.75" pulley. The in my signature was the 2-5/8" or the 2-1/2"...not sure which one. Neither of those showed an increase in boost, so i put the 2.75" back on to minimize any IAT increase i was getting with the smaller pulley's.
Last edited by Whippled 496; 02-02-2008 at 09:30 PM.