Methanol Pre-Turbo
07-12-2012, 03:11 AM
#21
I have done a TON of research on this for my truck. Bottom line from the guys who have ACTUALLY done it is it works just fine and there is NO issues with erosion from friction OR meth. It just isn't in liquid form long enough. The benefit is you are cooling the air at the heated source, so you're putting cooler air into the intercooler so it can extract even more temp, until you are closer to being thermally neutral.
I have plans to do this some day, just have never gotten around to it. I'll be using a M5 pre-turbo and a M15 post.
I have plans to do this some day, just have never gotten around to it. I'll be using a M5 pre-turbo and a M15 post.
07-12-2012, 09:59 AM
#22
[QUOTE=Spoolin;4954555]Water is probably the worst fluid because it's the only non-compressible subsantce in the world. It's one of the primary reasons why it is used in water-jet machines.
During WWII the govt did extensive research on how to extract the most power from sc planes. They were able to make the most power by spraying water pre sc. This was when extra power was the difference between life and death. They tried meth pre and post sc and water pre and post sc.
During WWII the govt did extensive research on how to extract the most power from sc planes. They were able to make the most power by spraying water pre sc. This was when extra power was the difference between life and death. They tried meth pre and post sc and water pre and post sc.
07-12-2012, 11:07 AM
#25
Lol, meth/alcohol injection causes the biggest debates...
Not to **** anyone off, but the ability of an atomized liquid to 'seal' the area between the compressor blades and the housing is negligible considering how a turbo works. If you think about it, its not a positive displacement type of forced induction, so the whole 'moving pockets of air in a sealed container' argument doesn't really stand up. After all, air/methanol/water (use fluid as a catch-all, as that's what they all are) is never really sealed in the compressor to begin with, as there is always space in between the blades where no sealing ever occurs.
Methanol (or any other liquid that evaporates into a gas and consumes heat energy) that is injected pre-compressor can improve the mass-rate of air being moved post-compressor. Methanol does this by being injected as an atomized liquid, and as it is compressed and heated, the change from liquid to gas is accelerated due to the excessive heat energy. Consuming the heat energy cools the outgoing air into a more dense charge, increasing the mass-rate post-compressor. Its like a small shot of nitrous, same concept...more oxygen to burn resulting from work that the compressor doesn't have to do. And we all know that a shot of nitrous can bring your boost up...(foose lol). The quicker the turbo can build boost vs mass consumed, the more efficient the compressor is
I do a lot of research in thermal system dynamics and fluid mechanics...sort of goes along with my career field lol
Not to **** anyone off, but the ability of an atomized liquid to 'seal' the area between the compressor blades and the housing is negligible considering how a turbo works. If you think about it, its not a positive displacement type of forced induction, so the whole 'moving pockets of air in a sealed container' argument doesn't really stand up. After all, air/methanol/water (use fluid as a catch-all, as that's what they all are) is never really sealed in the compressor to begin with, as there is always space in between the blades where no sealing ever occurs.
Methanol (or any other liquid that evaporates into a gas and consumes heat energy) that is injected pre-compressor can improve the mass-rate of air being moved post-compressor. Methanol does this by being injected as an atomized liquid, and as it is compressed and heated, the change from liquid to gas is accelerated due to the excessive heat energy. Consuming the heat energy cools the outgoing air into a more dense charge, increasing the mass-rate post-compressor. Its like a small shot of nitrous, same concept...more oxygen to burn resulting from work that the compressor doesn't have to do. And we all know that a shot of nitrous can bring your boost up...(foose lol). The quicker the turbo can build boost vs mass consumed, the more efficient the compressor is
I do a lot of research in thermal system dynamics and fluid mechanics...sort of goes along with my career field lol
07-12-2012, 02:07 PM
#27
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Lol, meth/alcohol injection causes the biggest debates...
Not to **** anyone off, but the ability of an atomized liquid to 'seal' the area between the compressor blades and the housing is negligible considering how a turbo works. If you think about it, its not a positive displacement type of forced induction, so the whole 'moving pockets of air in a sealed container' argument doesn't really stand up. After all, air/methanol/water (use fluid as a catch-all, as that's what they all are) is never really sealed in the compressor to begin with, as there is always space in between the blades where no sealing ever occurs.
Methanol (or any other liquid that evaporates into a gas and consumes heat energy) that is injected pre-compressor can improve the mass-rate of air being moved post-compressor. Methanol does this by being injected as an atomized liquid, and as it is compressed and heated, the change from liquid to gas is accelerated due to the excessive heat energy. Consuming the heat energy cools the outgoing air into a more dense charge, increasing the mass-rate post-compressor. Its like a small shot of nitrous, same concept...more oxygen to burn resulting from work that the compressor doesn't have to do. And we all know that a shot of nitrous can bring your boost up...(foose lol). The quicker the turbo can build boost vs mass consumed, the more efficient the compressor is
I do a lot of research in thermal system dynamics and fluid mechanics...sort of goes along with my career field lol
Not to **** anyone off, but the ability of an atomized liquid to 'seal' the area between the compressor blades and the housing is negligible considering how a turbo works. If you think about it, its not a positive displacement type of forced induction, so the whole 'moving pockets of air in a sealed container' argument doesn't really stand up. After all, air/methanol/water (use fluid as a catch-all, as that's what they all are) is never really sealed in the compressor to begin with, as there is always space in between the blades where no sealing ever occurs.
Methanol (or any other liquid that evaporates into a gas and consumes heat energy) that is injected pre-compressor can improve the mass-rate of air being moved post-compressor. Methanol does this by being injected as an atomized liquid, and as it is compressed and heated, the change from liquid to gas is accelerated due to the excessive heat energy. Consuming the heat energy cools the outgoing air into a more dense charge, increasing the mass-rate post-compressor. Its like a small shot of nitrous, same concept...more oxygen to burn resulting from work that the compressor doesn't have to do. And we all know that a shot of nitrous can bring your boost up...(foose lol). The quicker the turbo can build boost vs mass consumed, the more efficient the compressor is
I do a lot of research in thermal system dynamics and fluid mechanics...sort of goes along with my career field lol
07-12-2012, 02:56 PM
#28
During WWII the govt did extensive research on how to extract the most power from sc planes. They were able to make the most power by spraying water pre sc. This was when extra power was the difference between life and death. They tried meth pre and post sc and water pre and post sc.
Adding water to a positive displacement pump is fine, as a matter of fact if people wanted to add a nozzle before there Eaton blowers it would probably work well. I did read somewhere that adding meth pre-blower does eat the coating on the rotors though.
Sorry if I seemed rude, wasn't my intention. Not looking to show anyone up, I just like these kind of discussions!
Lol, meth/alcohol injection causes the biggest debates...
Not to **** anyone off, but the ability of an atomized liquid to 'seal' the area between the compressor blades and the housing is negligible considering how a turbo works. If you think about it, its not a positive displacement type of forced induction, so the whole 'moving pockets of air in a sealed container' argument doesn't really stand up. After all, air/methanol/water (use fluid as a catch-all, as that's what they all are) is never really sealed in the compressor to begin with, as there is always space in between the blades where no sealing ever occurs.
Methanol (or any other liquid that evaporates into a gas and consumes heat energy) that is injected pre-compressor can improve the mass-rate of air being moved post-compressor. Methanol does this by being injected as an atomized liquid, and as it is compressed and heated, the change from liquid to gas is accelerated due to the excessive heat energy. Consuming the heat energy cools the outgoing air into a more dense charge, increasing the mass-rate post-compressor. Its like a small shot of nitrous, same concept...more oxygen to burn resulting from work that the compressor doesn't have to do. And we all know that a shot of nitrous can bring your boost up...(foose lol). The quicker the turbo can build boost vs mass consumed, the more efficient the compressor is
I do a lot of research in thermal system dynamics and fluid mechanics...sort of goes along with my career field lol
Not to **** anyone off, but the ability of an atomized liquid to 'seal' the area between the compressor blades and the housing is negligible considering how a turbo works. If you think about it, its not a positive displacement type of forced induction, so the whole 'moving pockets of air in a sealed container' argument doesn't really stand up. After all, air/methanol/water (use fluid as a catch-all, as that's what they all are) is never really sealed in the compressor to begin with, as there is always space in between the blades where no sealing ever occurs.
Methanol (or any other liquid that evaporates into a gas and consumes heat energy) that is injected pre-compressor can improve the mass-rate of air being moved post-compressor. Methanol does this by being injected as an atomized liquid, and as it is compressed and heated, the change from liquid to gas is accelerated due to the excessive heat energy. Consuming the heat energy cools the outgoing air into a more dense charge, increasing the mass-rate post-compressor. Its like a small shot of nitrous, same concept...more oxygen to burn resulting from work that the compressor doesn't have to do. And we all know that a shot of nitrous can bring your boost up...(foose lol). The quicker the turbo can build boost vs mass consumed, the more efficient the compressor is
I do a lot of research in thermal system dynamics and fluid mechanics...sort of goes along with my career field lol
Agree on all accounts, just want to add that the atmospheric boiling point of Methanol is 65 degrees C and that of Water is 100 degrees C. And pre-turbo there is a vacume state present which lowers the atmospheric boiling condidtions of each fluid, yet water will still remain saturated.
I remember watching a steam turbine implode in a steam lab when I was in school because the steam was not superheated but was saturated.
07-12-2012, 03:35 PM
#30