14 bolt or 9"?
02-19-2011, 10:12 PM
#22
Actually when Built up Properly a Ford nine inch Is one of the most bullet prof set's up around. One of the problems is the cost involved. You need custom axles, A custom 3rd memeber assembly, You most likely end up needing a to use an aftermarket Brake set up for the 9 inch too. You could easly spend up to 3k just in parts to build a 9 inch. Then there is the fabrication involved.
There are several ways to build a 9 inch housing.
If you really want to build a stout 9 inch You would basically end up ditching the factory stamped housings and build from an after market plate forum. Strange sales a nice semi Fabricated housing center that you can either install your own tubes in or order it with tubes already installed...
A few other companies have simillar products. Then there is the fully fabricated housing which you can either assmble completely from scratch or order pre welded.
One of the only forums of raceing were they tend to stay away from a 9 inch is usually Heavy 4 wheeling or Rock crawling. One of the main reasons is the Low position of the pinion gear. In these sports they prefeer to use something with a higher pinion mainly for clearance.
Now some of you are saying, Well if its so great how come more People arent putting them under these for racing??? Again it goes back to cost. A properly built 9 inch is going to run in the $3000 plus range.
For comparrison Lets assume you have a 10 bolt with disc brakes.
Lets say you can buy a Good condition used 14 bolt 9.5 from a 3/4 ton truck minus brakes for $400. They usually come with 3.73 or 4.10 and a G80 locker. Now you can order off the shelf replacement axles in 6 lug around $200-$250.
I always recomend at least replacing the seals if not all the bearings since you will have to tear it open any way. I believe for around $150 you can get a complete major rebuild kit.
Here is were it can get tricky, The factory 9.5 housing from this application uses the HD brakes with a weired bolt pattern. These have to be replaced with oem style flange for the 10 bolt style brakes. At this time lets say you pay $100 for a set of these flanges. Now you can either shorten the HD leaf spring pads or cut them completely off and replace them. New ones start around $10 each. So realistically for around $1000 some one could build there own. If you have to pay some one to properly weld the Brackets, Leaf spring mounts, and the center portion the cost may go around $1500 deppending on Your local fabricator's Hourly rate. Keep in mind this is Just a Base figure to give you a rough Idea. If you change gear Ratio's, Different Locker or Posi, or don't have factory disck brakes your cost will Obviously fluctuate.
The up side to this Particular set up Is your using the largest Factory outer bearing and the largest Factory shaft for the highest possibly strength. I Have yet to see a failure In 6 or 8 lug set up that wasnt caused from a sever wreck. The SS How ever uses a smaller shaft and bearing and they have had several documented failers under Load from drag racing and other extreme use.
The down side is that you lose 1/2 inch on each side from the factory width. This size of axle shaft is only availible as replacement style axle. You can not get a custom forged set up, Although Summers Brothers Axles Claim they can do it but They want nearly $1000 for a set.
There are several ways to build a 9 inch housing.
If you really want to build a stout 9 inch You would basically end up ditching the factory stamped housings and build from an after market plate forum. Strange sales a nice semi Fabricated housing center that you can either install your own tubes in or order it with tubes already installed...
A few other companies have simillar products. Then there is the fully fabricated housing which you can either assmble completely from scratch or order pre welded.
One of the only forums of raceing were they tend to stay away from a 9 inch is usually Heavy 4 wheeling or Rock crawling. One of the main reasons is the Low position of the pinion gear. In these sports they prefeer to use something with a higher pinion mainly for clearance.
Now some of you are saying, Well if its so great how come more People arent putting them under these for racing??? Again it goes back to cost. A properly built 9 inch is going to run in the $3000 plus range.
For comparrison Lets assume you have a 10 bolt with disc brakes.
Lets say you can buy a Good condition used 14 bolt 9.5 from a 3/4 ton truck minus brakes for $400. They usually come with 3.73 or 4.10 and a G80 locker. Now you can order off the shelf replacement axles in 6 lug around $200-$250.
I always recomend at least replacing the seals if not all the bearings since you will have to tear it open any way. I believe for around $150 you can get a complete major rebuild kit.
Here is were it can get tricky, The factory 9.5 housing from this application uses the HD brakes with a weired bolt pattern. These have to be replaced with oem style flange for the 10 bolt style brakes. At this time lets say you pay $100 for a set of these flanges. Now you can either shorten the HD leaf spring pads or cut them completely off and replace them. New ones start around $10 each. So realistically for around $1000 some one could build there own. If you have to pay some one to properly weld the Brackets, Leaf spring mounts, and the center portion the cost may go around $1500 deppending on Your local fabricator's Hourly rate. Keep in mind this is Just a Base figure to give you a rough Idea. If you change gear Ratio's, Different Locker or Posi, or don't have factory disck brakes your cost will Obviously fluctuate.
The up side to this Particular set up Is your using the largest Factory outer bearing and the largest Factory shaft for the highest possibly strength. I Have yet to see a failure In 6 or 8 lug set up that wasnt caused from a sever wreck. The SS How ever uses a smaller shaft and bearing and they have had several documented failers under Load from drag racing and other extreme use.
The down side is that you lose 1/2 inch on each side from the factory width. This size of axle shaft is only availible as replacement style axle. You can not get a custom forged set up, Although Summers Brothers Axles Claim they can do it but They want nearly $1000 for a set.
02-19-2011, 10:30 PM
#23
The 4x4, 6 lug, 14 bolt 9.5's from Heavy 1/2 ton or light 3/4 ton trucks are the most desireable ones because there only 1/2 shorter on each side from the NBS housings and of course there 6 lug. The 2WD 6 lug housings are like nearly 2 inches shorter.
NBS 99- up 68.5 WMS-WMS
OBS 88-98 4x4 67.5 WMS-WMS
OBS 88-98 2WD 64.5WMS-WMS
You can also use an 8 lug housing from a light 3/4 ton truck if it measures roughly 67.5 - 68 inches. 8 lug axles measure slightly longer because of the extra beef in the flange.
Vans are weired I have come across at least 3 different sizes in both 6 and 8 lug.
64.5,
67.5,
around 70 this one had roughly a 2 inch offset to one side....
02-19-2011, 10:31 PM
#24
yeah, for that price you could have a 6 lug converted 10.5" 14 bolt with money left over. full float with .5" axle tubes, removable pinion support and pinion bearing set up like the ford 9" with bearings on both sides of the teeth. but with 1.5" bigger ring.
02-19-2011, 10:36 PM
#25
You are all Over anylizing this.
A Ford 9 inch, in racing forum, uses a captured cartridge style bearing thats pressed on to the axle shaft and held to the housing with a plate.
A 10 bolt, 14 bolt use a c clip to retain the axle in the housing.
The problem is that the e-brake assembly from the GM c-clip plate forum will not simple bolt in place over the retainer plate for the captured bearing. Also The axle stand out would be well over 3 inches which would be way to much offset, especially for a heavy truck...
It would be much easier to use an off the shelf brake system.
From a cost stand point a 9 inch would be more expensive to put together from scratch then a 14 bolt.
with a 9 inch you will need a custom 3rd memeber assembly, custom brakes, custom axles.
for a 14 bolt you can use factory axles, gears and even a factory locker keeping the price way down...
A Ford 9 inch, in racing forum, uses a captured cartridge style bearing thats pressed on to the axle shaft and held to the housing with a plate.
A 10 bolt, 14 bolt use a c clip to retain the axle in the housing.
The problem is that the e-brake assembly from the GM c-clip plate forum will not simple bolt in place over the retainer plate for the captured bearing. Also The axle stand out would be well over 3 inches which would be way to much offset, especially for a heavy truck...
It would be much easier to use an off the shelf brake system.
From a cost stand point a 9 inch would be more expensive to put together from scratch then a 14 bolt.
with a 9 inch you will need a custom 3rd memeber assembly, custom brakes, custom axles.
for a 14 bolt you can use factory axles, gears and even a factory locker keeping the price way down...
Im so glad my truck came stock with a 14 bolt.
02-19-2011, 10:51 PM
#27
yeah the 14bolt 9.5". which is good. too bad they weren't .5 like its 10.5 brother. lol i understand that the weight the huge ring gear and diff have take more to turn, but mane is it tough.
i know you can get crazy with a 9" but after custom center chunk and third member and all that, its not any where near stock any more. its a straight up after market rear. just throwing this out there because keeping with very near stock config the 14b seems to be what would dominate. with just locker and axles.
i know you can get crazy with a 9" but after custom center chunk and third member and all that, its not any where near stock any more. its a straight up after market rear. just throwing this out there because keeping with very near stock config the 14b seems to be what would dominate. with just locker and axles.
02-19-2011, 10:54 PM
#28
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Good write-up there brick.
I am a big fan of the 9" my self...and given the choice would run it in a racing application. But like you were hinting to, a 14B is definitely the most cost effective, and the strongest thing you can make on a normal budget.
I am a big fan of the 9" my self...and given the choice would run it in a racing application. But like you were hinting to, a 14B is definitely the most cost effective, and the strongest thing you can make on a normal budget.
02-19-2011, 10:56 PM
#29
yeah the 14bolt 9.5". which is good. too bad they weren't .5 like its 10.5 brother. lol
i know you can get crazy with a 9" but after custom center chunk and third member and all that, its not any where near stock any more. its a straight up after market rear. just throwing this out there because keeping with very near stock config the 14b seems to be what would dominate. with just locker and axles.
i know you can get crazy with a 9" but after custom center chunk and third member and all that, its not any where near stock any more. its a straight up after market rear. just throwing this out there because keeping with very near stock config the 14b seems to be what would dominate. with just locker and axles.
BTW The G80 in the 9.5 is much stronger then the one in the 10 bolts
02-19-2011, 11:00 PM
#30
I personally weighed the options out on pats set up. I even tried to figure out how to use factory style brakes with a 9 inch set up. In the end It was just better all the way around to use all of the shelf parts and make something that bolted together and also so you could get replacement parts at any auto parts store.