3-4 clutches
08-17-2011, 04:40 PM
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3-4 clutches
Where can I get a good quality 3-4 clutch set up and what do u recommend? I am putting down about 550 HP and 600 two in a ecsb z 71 and have burnt up the 3-4 clutches in my pwrformabuilt lvl 2 more than once. I am looking for better performance clutches for my 60e I keep burning 3rd and 4th up.
Last edited by Vince B; 08-18-2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Merging threads and posts by same user.
08-18-2011, 03:31 PM
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Like Jake stated there is much, much more to it than the clutch material itself. The stock Borg Warner high energy clutches are ideal for that transmission.
If you have suffered multiple failures then I would suggest speaking to a builder who specializes in 60e's. Many guys say they can build them, but they fail miserably. There is a fine balance in the hydraulic circuitry in one of these units and if it isn't managed properly then it is only a matter of time before the unit fails.
Don't hesitate to pick up the phone and give me a call if you would like to discuss your issues in great detail. I'll help you however I can.
g
If you have suffered multiple failures then I would suggest speaking to a builder who specializes in 60e's. Many guys say they can build them, but they fail miserably. There is a fine balance in the hydraulic circuitry in one of these units and if it isn't managed properly then it is only a matter of time before the unit fails.
Don't hesitate to pick up the phone and give me a call if you would like to discuss your issues in great detail. I'll help you however I can.
g
08-18-2011, 05:27 PM
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If you're under 500hp generally an 8-friction BW high energy clutch pack will hold great if the clearance is tight (i set mine at around .025-.030" with the band clearance at around .075") and line pressure at 230psi. This is using the corvette servo and most of transgo's recommended separator plate hole sizes. I tried larger than the .093" 3rd hole one time (.125"? can't remember right now) for a more firm shift, but the 2-3 shift ended up not feeling right at all so I got a new plate and stayed with .093".
This setup has worked great for me with a LQ4 with bolt-ons. Cam and supercharger are next so it'll be interesting to see if or how long it holds.
This setup has worked great for me with a LQ4 with bolt-ons. Cam and supercharger are next so it'll be interesting to see if or how long it holds.
08-18-2011, 06:33 PM
#7
I like the z-pack...but I think thats what they use in their level 2 build....There is another z-pack that uses 2 more clutches for extra holding power...call Dana at probuilt automatics, he puts together that 16 set clutch pack instead of the 14 set.
Also while you are in there make sure the input drum has the sonnax sleeve kit with the billet forward piston...I just broke my input drum at 500rwhp in my 3,080lb Camaro. The sleeve kit fixes this weak spot.
Make sure you get the wider bushings for both the front and rear side of the pump stator half that the input shaft spins in...new teflon seals.....just to help it all hold the line pressure.
I have been installing the wide rear sungear bushing as well, this fixed my 3rd gear vibration I had a few years ago...
Also while you are in there make sure the input drum has the sonnax sleeve kit with the billet forward piston...I just broke my input drum at 500rwhp in my 3,080lb Camaro. The sleeve kit fixes this weak spot.
Make sure you get the wider bushings for both the front and rear side of the pump stator half that the input shaft spins in...new teflon seals.....just to help it all hold the line pressure.
I have been installing the wide rear sungear bushing as well, this fixed my 3rd gear vibration I had a few years ago...
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08-19-2011, 06:42 AM
#8
Just so you know I merged your two threads so all info stays in one. In the future if you need help with one of your threads please let one of the mods know so we can fix it for you.
I to use the factory high energy Borg Warner frictions. I will make an eight pack using these which I guess would equal 16 single sided frictions if you wanted to look at that way. Personally I do not use the zpak in this application because I feel that their is not enough steel material to dissipate heat. Anyhow I use the factory HD apply plate with the "C" backing plate. Get the later 4l65E frictions which should measure .065 with .087 steels. By using this stack up I find the clutch clearance to be between .015-.020 and after a nice break in they are normally around .020-.025. I have been setting them up like this for years and it seems to work well for me.
As Jake said its more than clutches if I had to guess. In most cases it could be other issues in the unit or outside of the unit. Also keep an eye on your temps with this next build. Heat with boosted downshifts really take their toll on this clutch circuit. Another thing to look at is transmission line pressure. If you are having pressure issues going into 3rd gear no clutch is going to survive.
Take a close look at the input drum for leakage around the turbine shaft. Also that the shaft is not floating in the drum. Look at the 3rd accumulator check ball capsule for leakage. Make sure the pump is good especially in the pocket where the slide and rotor are. I have seen first hand where a front cover is warped and oil pressure gets behind the slide and pushes the slide to a low volume condition with increased RPM. This is why I machine all my pumps when building performance units or install a new one. I hope this helps you some. Vince
I to use the factory high energy Borg Warner frictions. I will make an eight pack using these which I guess would equal 16 single sided frictions if you wanted to look at that way. Personally I do not use the zpak in this application because I feel that their is not enough steel material to dissipate heat. Anyhow I use the factory HD apply plate with the "C" backing plate. Get the later 4l65E frictions which should measure .065 with .087 steels. By using this stack up I find the clutch clearance to be between .015-.020 and after a nice break in they are normally around .020-.025. I have been setting them up like this for years and it seems to work well for me.
As Jake said its more than clutches if I had to guess. In most cases it could be other issues in the unit or outside of the unit. Also keep an eye on your temps with this next build. Heat with boosted downshifts really take their toll on this clutch circuit. Another thing to look at is transmission line pressure. If you are having pressure issues going into 3rd gear no clutch is going to survive.
Take a close look at the input drum for leakage around the turbine shaft. Also that the shaft is not floating in the drum. Look at the 3rd accumulator check ball capsule for leakage. Make sure the pump is good especially in the pocket where the slide and rotor are. I have seen first hand where a front cover is warped and oil pressure gets behind the slide and pushes the slide to a low volume condition with increased RPM. This is why I machine all my pumps when building performance units or install a new one. I hope this helps you some. Vince
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