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I spent most of yesterday cleaning parts. And much of today scraping separator plate gaskets! I ended up boiling the separator plate with the stuck gaskets in the stock pan on the kitchen stove which softened them up enough to scrape them off. Once clean, I got started with the Performance Pack and the Heavy Duty 2-3 shift valve, which is not part of the Perf Pack. I'm still working on the valve body and separator plate. Tomorrow I'll complete the Perf Pack and get going on the rest of the build.
I gave the case components a few coats of engine primer and paint today, too. Aluminum paint. It looks nice; I should have cleared it, probably, too, but didn't.
I also had an interesting conversation with a guy at ACC Performance Products from whom I bought a Boss Hog torque converter (3,000 stall speed). The Sonnax instructions for the TCC pressure limiter notes that installing this valve kit is optional and that it will disable either the PWM or EC3 torque converter control, which permits partial slip operation of the converter's lockup clutches and instead results in on/off operation of the lockup clutches. The instructions say that many aftermarket converter clutches use material not designed for partial slip operation and suggest checking with the converter manufacturer before opting not to use this valve kit as to whether their clutches are designed for partial slip. The fellow at ACC Perf said absolutely, make it on/off, do not allow partial slip, it generates unnecessary heat. He also said not to run Dextron fluid because of the friction modifiers in it; that this will contribute to slip. Instead, he said, run Type F fluid. Sure, you'll have to change it every 30k, but the clutches will thank me for it. He also suggested running an external trans cooler in tandem with the stock cooler in the radiator.
I am working on the input housing stackup. I have the overrun clutch pack installed and the forward clutch pack with existing apply and wave plates; all new fractions and steels; and existing pressure plate. The book I'm using calls for .030" to .063" clearance. I have .070". The existing pressure plate is a size "C" according to the book which is a range between .227 and .232, I think? It measures .2278". I need size B according to my book, which is .250" to .255". Looking online, the available pressure plates don't match up with the sizes my book says and are way too thick. Thinnest one I found is 7.something mm and .250" = 6.something mm. What gives here?? I'll call WIT Transmission Parts in Knoxville, which is who I've been dealing with, tomorrow, but I'm a little bit baffled.
Attached is a picture of the page from the book. I've included a link to one of the sites with the too-thick pressure plates as well...
I did a little hunting online and found a much better method of checking clearance. Air test the drum several times, thus actuating the clutch pack and seating it. Air it up and hold it. Install a dial indicator contacting the pressure plate while the clutch pack is aired up and zero it. Release air and measure travel. This is the actual clearance.
I also see on WIT's website, which has a parts lookup function, the pressure plate I think I need. I'm going to air test the input drum with a dial indicator set up as noted above and see what I get for a clearance measurement before I do anything else.
I measured the clearance as I described using a dial indicator and air pressure, which also afforded simultaneous air testing of the drum. Using this method proved far more precise, though it required removal of the release springs (booster srpings??) From the 3-4 clutch pack to permit the pressure plate to stroke fully. I ended up using Raybestos "Z-Pak" pre-assembled 3-4 clutch pack which was suggested by the vendor I'm using for parts. This came with a heavy duty backing plate and pressure plate. Hopefully, I'm not making a mistake by doing this. This means I'm not using the Sonnax heavy duty backing plate. I did compare the two (by eye, not with a mike, as the Sonnax part is still in the factory bag) and they appear to be of similar thickness. I destroyed the seals on the reverse drum piston yesterday. I should have made a simple tool like a shoehorn out of aluminum flashing or maybe a cheap "for sale" sign or something, but didn't think of it. I expect I'll probably have to buy an entire seal kit to get those two seals. Stupid hurts
I finally got the transmission all together and back in the truck. I poured 1 qt of trans fluid in the converter prior to installing it, per ACC Performance Boss Hog converter instructions. I checked the gap between converter tabs and flexplate with the converter all the way in the trans: there was about a 3/16" gap, so no shims needed between converter and flexplate. I installed a deep pan on the trans. I poured 4 quarts of fluid in the trans prior to startup. Immediately after startup, poured in another two. So there is a total of 7 qt fluid in the transmission. It shows a little bit high on the dipstick. I put it in Reverse and then Drive, and thought I felt it engage - I was wrong about this.
I attempted to drive it out of the shop and discovered the truck doesn't move at all in either direction. Put it up off the ground enough to get the wheels off the floor and put it in D and R again, this time watching the rear wheels. Nothing. I think the pump isn't priming. I'm sure of it, though I don't have a pressure gauge to confirm that (yet - I might buy one just for this).
I did not - stupidly - pour trans fluid in the pump cavity before bolting the pump halves together. I thought there was adequate assembly lube in there for it to make a seal and suck fluid. While the trans was upside down on the stand I thought about pouring some fluid in the pump pickup hole before installing the filter, but didn't, thinking it will just run back out again as soon as the trans is upright.
So... what do I do now? Am I going to be able to get the pump primed with the trans installed in the truck? I'm afraid to just run it for any length of time without there being any lube for the pump vanes except for assembly lube.
About a .005" feeler gauge... that's what we all used to use back when auto transmissions were "the next big thing"
there is a total of 7 qt fluid in the transmission.
A 700/4L60E usually takes around 11-12 qt, depending on the pan depth. Not surprised it doesn't work yet. The 4L65E I put in my truck the other day took about 12½ qts (3 gallons plus a bit of top-off). Depending on how "deep" your pan is, it could take even more.
It shows a little bit high on the dipstick.
Per the instructions on the dipstick, it is to be checked with the engine running, the trans up to temp, and the trans in neutral. (NOT park, they are not the same) It doesn't say on the stick but ideally it should have gone through all the gears since it was last started, so that there's fluid in all the drums and whatnot as there will be during normal operation. It will be WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY HIGH on the stick with the engine off.
Am I going to be able to get the pump primed with the trans installed in the truck?
Yes. No problem. When the engine isn't running, the fluid will be almost up to the level of the actual pump inlet, i.e. the filter O-ring, when properly filled. Self priming, for all practical purposes.
To be clear: I know to expect a dozen quarts or maybe more to fill this thing. and I'm checking it with the engine running. In Park, not neutral, which is how I've always done it, and I'm not new to auto mechanics. I'll have to look and see about that. But it's irrelevant in the current circumstances. That's why I said it has only 7 qt in it and shows high on the stick. It's obvious to me that the pump isn't moving any fluid out of the pan. Though I haven't checked it with the engine off. That would be an interesting experiment, just to verify that the pump isn't pumping.
It did occur to me while I was pondering this after posting that maybe if I keep adding fluid, knowing I'll need probably 14 quarts total (it's a 4" deep pan), the fluid level will probably just about reach the pump and it might prime. Is that what you're suggesting? That sounds like it might do the trick. There's definitely no fluid in any of the drums yet, since the pump isn't moving any. I'm sure there's no more fluid in the converter than the quart I poured in it before I installed it.
READ yer dipstick. What does it say? Are you paying attention to it?
if I keep adding fluid... Is that what you're suggesting?
Yah more or less.
If it works, you're golden. If it doesn't, ...
Whaddya got to lose? Keep everything clean in case you have to recover the fluid. Not cheeeeep, I know. Probably won't be an issue though. Unless something else got narfed somewhere along the line.
Ok, thanx. I'm pretty confident nothing else got "narfed" as you say. That's a good one, haven't heard that before! It all went together pretty smoothly and I was very careful. I'll start with a few more quarts and see what happens.
05-14-2024, 09:51 PM
