James B.

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking... another major difference between the older 4L80-E's and the later ones is the use of molded apply pistons instead of the cast aluminum ones with the lip seals. That seal/gasket/o-ring kit you have will have some extra lip seals in it that aren't going to work on a 2002 or 2003 model year 4L80-E. You're taking apart a rebuild that's already failed again, it might be worth checking the molded piston seals. Maybe you've got one leaking. Most rebuild "kits" don't include these, it's easy to skip doing them. If you've got one bad you have to replace the entire steel piston - the lip seals are molded onto them and not servicable. Be careful reinstalling the pistons, it's very easy to fold over or slice a lip seal. There are special tools for these to protect the seals during installation into the housings, but I've found thin plastic sheets to work fine for this purpose.
On the diagram above: 685, 606, and 619 are all molded-seal parts. Part #505 (overrun clutch piston for overdrive planetary not pictured above) is also molded.

Here are those parts:
#685: (Center Molded Seal, forward clutch)


#606: (Molded Forward Clutch Apply Piston)


#619: (Molded Direct Clutch Apply Piston)


#505: (Molded Overrun Clutch Piston)

howard quick

Mate of mine who used to be a funny car crew chief over there used to put the lip seals in the freezer overnight. Said they just drop into place when you install them.

FLT

iTrader: (1)

Those are red devil clutches and those will be fine for your build. If I remember correctly they come with two different thickness clutches for the 400 intermediates. That is why you are having an issue. Vince

gman4dx266

Gosh dang! My whole effin kit was for an old 80! No wonder I had a buttload of lipseals left over...I was like 'dang, this seal wont come off this drum...it looks like its stuck on there permenantly'. All of them were good though. This trans Im building, the guy said it was from an 03 truck (true; turbo hydramatic tag says 03) and that it would slip on the 1>2 upshift, other than that it was okay. the seals looked good to me, and they didnt have any nicks in them. I just washed the drums out as well as the piston itself and put it back in. It had that tupperware type burp and I had to do a slight twist going in and made sure they didnt fold, twist, or get jacked up in any way, so they must be good and plyable. Thanks james! I was wondering why I had like 10 seals I couldnt use! I can now sleep better!! Gah...Just my luck. I hope I dont run into anything else...Im just about done with the trans, just need those dang intermediates!

EDIT: Same post time as you vince; It is apparent now that I have an early 80e kit. Maybe Ill some good news today dealing with getting the right clutches

gman4dx266

Wanna run something past you Vince:

Talked to one of my acquaintances at at local reputable trans shop, and told him my conundrum with over-thick clutches. He told me to either (A) take out the waveplate (which you said dont do) or (B) use a thinner pressure backing plate. He handed me one that mikes out at around .365 or so. I will mike mine later today and see if there is enough difference and see if i can use the one he gave me. Im guessing this is an older model 4l80 pressure plate? Or TH400? Anyways when he said option A, I was like 'hmm, wouldnt that be sitting on the first steel?' (quoting vince) and he goes 'yes it would be, but I havent ever had a problem with it' Vince, what is that waveplate for? Is it sort of a buffer/cushion between the piston and steels?

EDIT/UPDATE: Measured the one he gave me: .366 - - - measured mine: .275, so that option is out. I may just snag some of those regular gray/green colored clutches from him, and be done with it. I suppose as long as I have healthy line pressure I should be okay. What would you recommend, Vince: Thinner stock clutches from him, or thinner steels and my raybestos's?

FLT

iTrader: (1)

If you look closely with the wave removed the piston is lower than the snap ring for the center support. With that being said the wave not only acts as a spacer so the steel meets the piston but also cushions the 1-2 shift to help the factory sprag last a bit longer. Back to my theory about removing the wave. Find a solid surface like a brick wall. Take your hand and make a fist. Take your fist about 5" from the wall and try to punch it! Now take your fist about a foot away from the same wall and punch it! Which hits harder? I'm thinking the one 12" away. Now back to reality. If you remove the wave plate that is what is happening with the piston below the snap ring. This is because there is now added clearance between the piston and the first steel. When building we always want to reduce clearances not add to them. Make sense?

On your question on the pressure plate that thicker plate it is for a 400 or an early 80. Yes it is thicker but it will not fit inside a 97 and later case. They are slightly wider so that option is definitely out. I had a thought yesterday. How do the steels in the kit compare to the ones that came out of your trans? Those frictions might work with the correct steels if in fact you received thick steels. I from time to time will use a thick steel to tighten up the intermediate clutch clearance. I usually try to get .030-.040 when adjusting this clutch. Something to think about. Good luck. Vince

gman4dx266

Gotcha vince. Like I said, I have the thinnest backing plate there is. Thats pretty awsome about your own gap setting, I think atsg says .040 to .170. I'd hate to have someone build me a trans and have .170! It would take 2 or 3 seconds to shift LOL

But back to seriousness, The old steels and new steels were both the same; around .076 If I remember correctly. Maybe .078 I cant remember Ive looked at so much. Whatever they were, they were the same as my new ones. I talked to WIT yesterday and they didn't have the right size red raybestos's in stock. Said they would have to special order directly from the company for them. They didnt really have a timeframe for me, but I am pretty much in a hurry to get this thing together and swapped back to the truck because no third gear and no reverse is tough to work with in a daily commute. Its tough haha

FLT

iTrader: (1)

lol!:d

Pewter53

iTrader: (36)

how did you solve this problem my kit came with the same damn clutches as the ones in your picture.

gman4dx266

I talked to my buddies at the trans shop and snagged some regular borg warner performance frictions and stuffed those in there, they were actually .071 (not 70) and I had about a ~.063 gap so I was doing fairly well.

What has been determined is that I received an early style 4L80E kit (91-95 model years) since I had a trillion lip seals I couldnt do anything with, as well as a set of 4 clutches I couldnt use. Trans is all back together except for the tailhousing. Im waiting on the tq conv. to come in the mail sometime this next week, and we'll see what kind of work I did. I hope I have 4 forward gears and 1 reverse, thats all Im concerned with LOL. Dont see many 20 year olds building their own trans anyhow, so I should get some points for trying.