6L80E limits
04-30-2011, 02:24 AM
#21
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I'm told by Circle-D build guy that stock 6l80's have shown failure at around 500 whp in FI trucks. 6L90's stand a bit of a better chance, but as has been said many times, the key is in the tuning. I know a guy with a 550+ whp FI/NOx AWD TBSS on a factory 4L70. Circle D has a 800 whp build that they use and in addition to billet parts it adds MORE clutches that are in it of themselves stronger than factory clutches.
I, personally, plan to see the limits of the 6L90 when I beat the **** out of it in our THROWDOWN event.
I, personally, plan to see the limits of the 6L90 when I beat the **** out of it in our THROWDOWN event.
04-30-2011, 02:33 PM
#22
There was a recent article in the June 2011 edition of Hot Rod Magazine titled “Got A ’10-’11 Camaro? Here’s What’s Gonna Break”. As normal, you need to sort through it to see how it would apply to yourself, as they are dealing with a 4,100lb car vs a truck, but still I found some of the info interesting, such as the TAPshift lag vs auto-shift perimeters. Instead of just typing what I deemed as useful info, I’m retyping it in whole as it was written to let you decide for yourself what is valid. The article also had other good information that applies to our trucks as well, such as camshafts and AFM, as well as dealing with the VCT phaser when so equipped. Not to mention some slight indications of capability for rods, pistons, head gaskets and so on.
Here is what they had to say about the 6L80:
This new-gen GM trans is so sophisticated that it has a separate computer [TCM or transmission control module]. Incorrect TCM tuning causes more problems than hard-parts failures.
TCM calibration: Reprogramming is required when changing engine rpm range, shift points, or rearend gear ratio. A significant power change increases engine acceleration rate, which changes the amount of trans slip; both impact when the shift needs to occur compared with when the TCM calculates it should occur. HPTuners has reprogramming software.
TAPshift lag: When enabled, on-demand manual gear changes are made via steering wheel paddles. TAPshift permits holding a specific gear around a road course without fear that the trans might upshift or downshift during a turn and destabilize the car. It also works well for a burnout, but input lag creates straight-line acceleration issues; for drag racing, reprogram to upshift automatically at a desired shift rpm.
Torque management damage: Disabling torque management completely can cause failures. LPE says, “With a clutch-to-clutch trans like the 6L80, some torque management is needed to reduce the torque momentarily and allow time for the clutch for the desired gear to engage.”
Torque converter [500-plus horsepower]: LPE reports zero failures, IPS is confident through 500hp, and Livernois says it has “a stock converter in a ’10 Camaro that makes over 750hp with close to 100 quarter-mile runs along with street driving.” Precision Industries, TCI, Yank, and others sell high-stall converters. A triple-disc converter and custom trans tuning will ensure the converter stays locked up in Overdrive even on high-power mills.
Hard-parts failures [over 575hp]: With correct programming, Livernois and others report minimal internal hard-parts failures through 575 to 600hp. Rossler builds beefed 6L80s. It says the 3-5 reverse clutch usually fails first, followed by the 4-5-6 clutch: “We add more clutches, machine special steels, and use better materials.” Fully built Rossler 6L80s have withstood 1,000hp on a chassis dyno; 750hp is more realistic for long-term street durability.
Here is what they had to say about the 6L80:
This new-gen GM trans is so sophisticated that it has a separate computer [TCM or transmission control module]. Incorrect TCM tuning causes more problems than hard-parts failures.
TCM calibration: Reprogramming is required when changing engine rpm range, shift points, or rearend gear ratio. A significant power change increases engine acceleration rate, which changes the amount of trans slip; both impact when the shift needs to occur compared with when the TCM calculates it should occur. HPTuners has reprogramming software.
TAPshift lag: When enabled, on-demand manual gear changes are made via steering wheel paddles. TAPshift permits holding a specific gear around a road course without fear that the trans might upshift or downshift during a turn and destabilize the car. It also works well for a burnout, but input lag creates straight-line acceleration issues; for drag racing, reprogram to upshift automatically at a desired shift rpm.
Torque management damage: Disabling torque management completely can cause failures. LPE says, “With a clutch-to-clutch trans like the 6L80, some torque management is needed to reduce the torque momentarily and allow time for the clutch for the desired gear to engage.”
Torque converter [500-plus horsepower]: LPE reports zero failures, IPS is confident through 500hp, and Livernois says it has “a stock converter in a ’10 Camaro that makes over 750hp with close to 100 quarter-mile runs along with street driving.” Precision Industries, TCI, Yank, and others sell high-stall converters. A triple-disc converter and custom trans tuning will ensure the converter stays locked up in Overdrive even on high-power mills.
Hard-parts failures [over 575hp]: With correct programming, Livernois and others report minimal internal hard-parts failures through 575 to 600hp. Rossler builds beefed 6L80s. It says the 3-5 reverse clutch usually fails first, followed by the 4-5-6 clutch: “We add more clutches, machine special steels, and use better materials.” Fully built Rossler 6L80s have withstood 1,000hp on a chassis dyno; 750hp is more realistic for long-term street durability.
04-30-2011, 02:59 PM
#23
I personally would not remove all of the tq management.There are several reasons some is needed.Removing it all will take a tole on them.I am willing to bet,As they age you will start to see threads about failures
They are more in depth than the 60e and 4L80E tranmsissions,but they can be pretty awesome transmissions when done right.
They are more in depth than the 60e and 4L80E tranmsissions,but they can be pretty awesome transmissions when done right.
Last edited by Wheatley; 04-30-2011 at 11:40 PM.
04-30-2011, 10:19 PM
#24
I personally would not remove all of the tq management.There are several reasons some is needed.Removing it all will take a tole on them.I am willing to bet,As they age you will start to see threads about failures
They are more in delth than the 60e and 4L80E tranmsissions,but they can pretty awesome transmissions when done right.
They are more in delth than the 60e and 4L80E tranmsissions,but they can pretty awesome transmissions when done right.
04-30-2011, 10:46 PM
#25
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put a good quality stall in the A6, NO TM, A tune from someone that "knows the IN's and OUT's of the box"
and absolutely do not set your shift rpm's above 6500 rpms in a truck.....
Follow these rules and you will keep a substantial amount of $$$$ in yo pocket..
and absolutely do not set your shift rpm's above 6500 rpms in a truck.....Follow these rules and you will keep a substantial amount of $$$$ in yo pocket..
05-01-2011, 06:53 PM
#26
sounds awesome
05-09-2011, 03:50 PM
#30
.... AM I correct in thinking when using EFI LIVE .....no option to pick a % of TM in the trans just on or off ......is that correct .......therefor does it make sense to adjust the amount of timing pulled at shift in the stock tune to get the same effect as reducing TM ........does this make sense ???
HP tuners ..does it have the ability to adjust trans TM by % ???