Anyone Try An All Sonnax Stratigy
07-09-2009, 03:37 PM
#1
Anyone Try An All Sonnax Stratigy
We are going to try a build with no Trans-go stuff using all Sonnax parts.
Going back to stock stuff, spacer plate, valve body, and anything Trans-go had us modify but it's still a 4L60e to 4L65e conversion with the five gear planets and clutch pack that has more plates, the better input shaft and sunshell, good friction materials, wider band, etc etc.
On the sonnax side of the house the recent power pack HP-4L60E-01 and the super hold servos and such. Too many other little things to list.
Just wondering if anyone has went this route before?
Going back to stock stuff, spacer plate, valve body, and anything Trans-go had us modify but it's still a 4L60e to 4L65e conversion with the five gear planets and clutch pack that has more plates, the better input shaft and sunshell, good friction materials, wider band, etc etc.
On the sonnax side of the house the recent power pack HP-4L60E-01 and the super hold servos and such. Too many other little things to list.
Just wondering if anyone has went this route before?
07-10-2009, 08:05 AM
#3
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My name is Gregg Nader, I am a product development specialist and represent Sonnax. This thread was just brought to my attention and I would like to respond to the comment of servo and harsh shifts.
First, with all things being equal, if you replace any servo with a larger one you will get firmer more aggressive shifts. The question is, what is too much? This depends on many variables (original calibration, vehicle, power, use, expectations etc.). For 2nd gear on a 4L60 & 4l60E there are essentially 6 different sized servos available. Four factory sizes, from smallest to largest (1-4cyl & V6; 2-V6 & V8 <most common; 3-a new one in 4L70 apps; 4-Corvette servo) and two after market, the Sonnax 77911-03K and ‘other’ that is a large diameter flat disc (I think made by a couple of suppliers). As you can see, with this many options, no one servo is best for all applications. For many common moderate performance applications, going up one size is usually enough.
The Sonnax 2nd servo is the only servo that is larger than any of the factory servos that still retains a factory style cushion spring and maintains a ‘hydraulic band release’ when going into 3rd. When used as an upgrade in a unit that originally had a ‘Corvette’ servo, the results typically are not excessive. Just a nice noticeable change in shift feel on the 1-2 & 2-3 that responds nicely to pressure, but does not change this so much as to radically alter the character of the vehicle.
So while any servo that is larger than the one it replaces can be harsh (depending on variables), the Sonnax servo will not be as harsh as the other servos that eliminate the factory style cushion spring and eliminate ‘hydraulic band release’ when going into 3rd.
therock; I am pleased to see your inquiry about trying the new and older Sonnax parts for this unit. Most of the newer items (kit, servo, shafts, 2-3 valve etc) were developed due to requests from shops that were not happy with their past options. I also am curious to hear any other comments and will be available to answer any questions you have.
Regards
Gregg Nader
Sonnax Tech
First, with all things being equal, if you replace any servo with a larger one you will get firmer more aggressive shifts. The question is, what is too much? This depends on many variables (original calibration, vehicle, power, use, expectations etc.). For 2nd gear on a 4L60 & 4l60E there are essentially 6 different sized servos available. Four factory sizes, from smallest to largest (1-4cyl & V6; 2-V6 & V8 <most common; 3-a new one in 4L70 apps; 4-Corvette servo) and two after market, the Sonnax 77911-03K and ‘other’ that is a large diameter flat disc (I think made by a couple of suppliers). As you can see, with this many options, no one servo is best for all applications. For many common moderate performance applications, going up one size is usually enough.
The Sonnax 2nd servo is the only servo that is larger than any of the factory servos that still retains a factory style cushion spring and maintains a ‘hydraulic band release’ when going into 3rd. When used as an upgrade in a unit that originally had a ‘Corvette’ servo, the results typically are not excessive. Just a nice noticeable change in shift feel on the 1-2 & 2-3 that responds nicely to pressure, but does not change this so much as to radically alter the character of the vehicle.
So while any servo that is larger than the one it replaces can be harsh (depending on variables), the Sonnax servo will not be as harsh as the other servos that eliminate the factory style cushion spring and eliminate ‘hydraulic band release’ when going into 3rd.
therock; I am pleased to see your inquiry about trying the new and older Sonnax parts for this unit. Most of the newer items (kit, servo, shafts, 2-3 valve etc) were developed due to requests from shops that were not happy with their past options. I also am curious to hear any other comments and will be available to answer any questions you have.
Regards
Gregg Nader
Sonnax Tech
07-10-2009, 08:40 AM
#4
Thank You Mr. Nader,
It's in the shop being performed as we speak.
OK, you do not take PM's or emails here. I understand.
I wanted to ask if I can get a contact number for the shop to call if they experience any problems as the work is going on today.
You can email or PM me from here.
It's in the shop being performed as we speak.
OK, you do not take PM's or emails here. I understand.
I wanted to ask if I can get a contact number for the shop to call if they experience any problems as the work is going on today.
You can email or PM me from here.
Last edited by therock; 07-10-2009 at 08:43 AM. Reason: b
07-11-2009, 08:59 AM
#5
Got it Back
The truck shifts great. The 1-2 is a tad aggressive at part throttle but not the annoying kind, not what I would call harsh. The 2-3-4 are precise. Quick and with the firmness the doctor ordered. I really, really like how quick the shifts get done.
There is a special place in the low speed part throttle that is firmer than everywhere else but it's just noticeable and not a worrisome thing. I have a tune in the thing and will be resetting all pressures to stock soon to see if this is the little anomaly. The tune trans tweaks are minimal ones and so is the shift difference. It's so small will not be pursued to hard if it cannot be dialed out. You know how we can be about the small wrinkles though. It's more like matching it up to the rest of the shiftings.
I can tell why they call them Super Hold servos. I can feel the strength applied. With 3.42 gears it takes some guts to get it up there to shift into 4th with some major throttle applied but I managed and it goes in with authority.
All the talk about the super Holds being too firm or harsh has to be when they are applied with a Trans-go kit. Just my opinion from what I read. My builder is not new to the trans-go stuff and he puts them in Camero's and the like weekly with perfect results but in the trucks is where things get funny for him. So far we are sold on the sonnax performance pack kit and servo combo and he will be checking on me as I put some playtime miles on the tranny.
Do a Google on trucks with a harsh 1-2 and you will get an assortment of methods different folks use. FLT and Performa built must have some good research in dialing it out as I don't see many complaints there. But I do get lots of hits on the harsh 1-2 associated with the Trans-go being in the mix.
To summarize my 4x4 2005 4l60e is converted to a 4l65e with the 5 gear planets, hardened input shaft and upgraded sun shell, not the beast. All the frictions are performance grade and I heard names like Borg-Warner and High Energy and wider bands. Most of which is french to me.
The 3-4 clutch pack has the added plates the 65e gets and any other of the factory changes that came with the change to the 65e go. I know he has some other recipes for lube and longevity.
Any way, way to go Sonnax with the Performance Pack and Serov's.
There is a special place in the low speed part throttle that is firmer than everywhere else but it's just noticeable and not a worrisome thing. I have a tune in the thing and will be resetting all pressures to stock soon to see if this is the little anomaly. The tune trans tweaks are minimal ones and so is the shift difference. It's so small will not be pursued to hard if it cannot be dialed out. You know how we can be about the small wrinkles though. It's more like matching it up to the rest of the shiftings.
I can tell why they call them Super Hold servos. I can feel the strength applied. With 3.42 gears it takes some guts to get it up there to shift into 4th with some major throttle applied but I managed and it goes in with authority.
All the talk about the super Holds being too firm or harsh has to be when they are applied with a Trans-go kit. Just my opinion from what I read. My builder is not new to the trans-go stuff and he puts them in Camero's and the like weekly with perfect results but in the trucks is where things get funny for him. So far we are sold on the sonnax performance pack kit and servo combo and he will be checking on me as I put some playtime miles on the tranny.
Do a Google on trucks with a harsh 1-2 and you will get an assortment of methods different folks use. FLT and Performa built must have some good research in dialing it out as I don't see many complaints there. But I do get lots of hits on the harsh 1-2 associated with the Trans-go being in the mix.
To summarize my 4x4 2005 4l60e is converted to a 4l65e with the 5 gear planets, hardened input shaft and upgraded sun shell, not the beast. All the frictions are performance grade and I heard names like Borg-Warner and High Energy and wider bands. Most of which is french to me.
The 3-4 clutch pack has the added plates the 65e gets and any other of the factory changes that came with the change to the 65e go. I know he has some other recipes for lube and longevity.
Any way, way to go Sonnax with the Performance Pack and Serov's.
07-11-2009, 12:48 PM
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therock,
Glad to hear things are going your way and you are happy with the results. Be sure to update after you adjust your tune.
Yes, trucks tend to shift harsher than cars, even when they have the exact same calibration inside the transmission. Going with larger 2nd servo (I believe you went up 2 sizes from stock) is even more challenging. Also I have noticed trucks have a wider range of shift feel even when stock, and this caries over to when they are re-calibrated.
Other kits out there have springs on both sides of the 1-2 accumulator piston that severely limit piston stroke and the inevitable is very harsh shifts most of the time. This is fine if that’s what the customer wants, or you have a very high stall converter (also less common in trucks). The Sonnax kit manages springs on both side of the piston, but does NOT limit piston stroke. This allows the accumulator to do its job. The results is less overall harshness on the 1-2, (if you have real power & traction) fewer broken parts and more acceptable drivability at low speeds, yet great shifts under load.
One of the main benefits of the Sonnax kit is it builds off of the original calibration in the transmission so results are more consistent across years and vehicle types.
Gregg
Glad to hear things are going your way and you are happy with the results. Be sure to update after you adjust your tune.
Yes, trucks tend to shift harsher than cars, even when they have the exact same calibration inside the transmission. Going with larger 2nd servo (I believe you went up 2 sizes from stock) is even more challenging. Also I have noticed trucks have a wider range of shift feel even when stock, and this caries over to when they are re-calibrated.
Other kits out there have springs on both sides of the 1-2 accumulator piston that severely limit piston stroke and the inevitable is very harsh shifts most of the time. This is fine if that’s what the customer wants, or you have a very high stall converter (also less common in trucks). The Sonnax kit manages springs on both side of the piston, but does NOT limit piston stroke. This allows the accumulator to do its job. The results is less overall harshness on the 1-2, (if you have real power & traction) fewer broken parts and more acceptable drivability at low speeds, yet great shifts under load.
One of the main benefits of the Sonnax kit is it builds off of the original calibration in the transmission so results are more consistent across years and vehicle types.
Gregg
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07-11-2009, 01:47 PM
#8
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WOW nice to see support from a major supplier and manufacture such as sonnax... I've used a few of your products in my last 4l80e rebuild. And I must say I'm impressed with the tcc mod kit.
Gregg Nader, I hope you stick around and share more information about trans mods with us DIY type of guys...
Gregg Nader, I hope you stick around and share more information about trans mods with us DIY type of guys...
07-11-2009, 01:48 PM
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I have both sonnax servos and I love the way it shifts. I searched and found this...
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...parts_s/95.htm
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...parts_s/95.htm
07-11-2009, 03:10 PM
#10
My trans guy says his distributor didn't carry it yet and had to order one up. I think it's a recent release by Sonnax. I did some Google researching and did find vendors.
Performmance Pack Part Number: HP-4L60E-01.
Parts Summary pdf
Instructions pdf
2nd Gear "Super Hold" Servo Part Number: 77911-03K.
Parts Summary
Instructions
Servo, 4th Gear, "Super Hold" Part Number: 77767K.
Parts Summary
Instructions
Where I Got The Numbers
Performmance Pack Part Number: HP-4L60E-01.
Parts Summary pdf
Instructions pdf
2nd Gear "Super Hold" Servo Part Number: 77911-03K.
Parts Summary
Instructions
Servo, 4th Gear, "Super Hold" Part Number: 77767K.
Parts Summary
Instructions
Where I Got The Numbers