DrX

iTrader: (7)

What is the rated stall speed of the converter? Does it match the logged stall speed?

Any slip logged while the converter is locked? Clutches could already be fried if commanded pressure was too low vs actual torque output due to the scaling. Need to correct all tables with torque, g/sec, g/cyl, lbs/min, etc when scaling.

adunphy

The converter is a Circle D Pro Series Stage III with 1B stall speed (2500-2700) but Chris from Circle D tells me with my setup it would be more like 3000 actual.

When you "does it match the logged stall" I'm not sure I know how to tell. I also dont know how to log slip or determine slip. Any help would be appreciated.

When I run the big injectors and the scaled tune, I did go through every single table (took me hours) and found anything that had g/sec, g/cyl and lbs/min and scaled them accordingly Some I was able to do by the axis, but most had to be shifted up or down depending on the direction of scale.

If I've already fried my clutches, would I see that in the fluid? Last time I dipped it, the fluid was nice and clear red.

Atomic

iTrader: (42)

There is a parameter in the scanner called torque converter slip, you want it log it in RPM. The other way would be to compare engine rpm to input shaft speed, which is what the converter slip parameter is going anyway.

DrX

iTrader: (7)

From PI:

"Stall Speed

Torque converter stall is a commonly used term and is commonly misunderstood. Stall is the speed at which the converter will hold the engine speed and not allow further gain (i.e., the engine "stalls"). The key word here is engine. The speed at which stall occurs with a given converter is a function of engine peak torque. It is clear that the stall speed on a given converter will not be the same coupled to a tame small block engine when compared to a big block with all of the muscle features added. When comparing stall speeds it is important to account for the engine that drives it. True converter stall can best be determined when a Transbrake is used. Testing for stall value by locking the wheel brakes generally does not produce a true stall value because the engine power can often cause wheel turn by overpowering the brakes. Stall speed determined by this method should be identified as such when discussing stall speed determination. Flash stall is determined by launching at full throttle and observing the peak speed attained at launch. Selection of the right stall speed for your vehicle should be matched to the engine peak torque, engine torque curve shape and vehicle weight. In general, the stall speed selected for your converter would be 500 to 700 rpm below the peak torque. This speed allows the margin for application of the torque reserve on takeoff. When selecting stall speed without having prior experience to go by, it is better to conservatively estimate the engine torque than it is to over estimate it. If you over estimate the torque output you will have a converter with a stall speed too low, making your car slow off the line and have slow ET. A properly selected stall speed will give you better launch and better ET. You can see why it is important to consult with professionals prior to making a stall speed selection. Within the converter, stall speed is balanced off against inefficiency after launch. Getting desired stall at the expense of performance after launch is just as costly as improper stall speed to begin. The optimum converter has careful selection and design of changes to the impeller, turbine and stator."

I believe there is also a PID in EFILive for trans component slip, not sure about HPT.

Shift pressure tables also need to be shifted or the commanded pressure will only be that needed for 1/2 of actual torque if scaled 50%.

madmann26

iTrader: (7)

Post the tune and the log, that's the best way to help with this, else, all of us are just pissing in the wind.

I know for me, my 40k sits behind my HE and my trans might see 160 on a very hard run.

adunphy

Attached is my current tune and a log from a test drive today. Please keep in mind I've installed my stock injectors back and put the stock (not-scaled) tune back in place to eliminate issues caused by the scaling for now till I find the issue. The small injectors also cause me to lean out and go over 100% duty cycle quickly, but this is all just for trans diagnostic purposes so we can ignore those factors at this point.

Hopefully I've included the right PIDs to log. I graphed the engine speed (RPM) vs Trans Input shaft (RPM) vs TCC Slip (RPM). For the life of me I could not make sense of it. Hopefully someone is able to interpret the data better than I can. Thanks in advance.

Its an 8 min 44 sec log and I tried to get under acceleration without generating too much boost and leaning out. Fore quick reference...Frame 5667-5965 is one good area with steady RPM climb. Frame 6858-6948 is a good steep increase area.

Atomic

iTrader: (42)

Are you using the new version of the scanner? If so, you can log basically all the parameters for the trans without consequence. You need on there: Force Motor Current (actual), TCC slip, Trans fluid temp, TCC Mode, Trans Input Shaft RPM, Trans Output Shaft RPM, and Current Gear.

Doing a quick look over your tune, you have the TCC enable solenoid set to disabled, which explains why it never locks up. Your converter will also not lock below ~46 at low throttle in any cases, so basically get up to speed to test it, or force it locked with the scanner. You also should increase your min duty cycle on the TCC to around 95% or so. If you want to tighten up everything a little, multiply the force motor current table by 0.9.

adunphy

I'll upgrade to 3.0 today and add all those PIDs. Will try to post up a new log later. I'll also change the lockup...that was not like that before, I must have fat fingered it at some point the last few days.

madmann26

iTrader: (7)

I would also make your apply/release speeds are correct. They don't look right. I would also copy your normal table to pattern A, B and the Hot table. You can use the Bluecat software if you aren't comfortable with hand scaling it. It's nice and takes the guess work out.

http://home.windstream.net/philliphsmith/BC_Trans.zip

I'll be corrected if I am wrong. The reason you do this is to rule out any chance of another table taking over what you are really trying to do.

Do the same with full throttle apply/release. Make all the tables the same.

adunphy

Ok, installed version 3 and added all the trans sensors that made sense. The only sensor I forgot to log was ambient air temp but I can tell you it was 65F outside. I also changed the TCC solenoid per Atomic and that worked to lock it up at the set speeds. I also used the scanner to force it locked and that worked great too. If under acceleration and I toggle it on, I get a chirp (sounds like a belt slip for a second) and the engine drops RPM and locks firm. I can confirm lockup works. Also in a second test, I ran it locked 100% of the time and the temps kept dropping and dropping quickly.

@madmann, I did not change any apply/release yet but I certainly see what you are saying about leveling the playing field and agree. Before I make any changes from the stock 4L80e TCM settings, I want to see if anyone finds something strange/unexpected in my log.