bye 8.6" axle, hello 10.5" axle
11-24-2009, 01:35 PM
#12
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I don't know how much you tow. I would much rather have a torquey V6 chumming along at 3500 RPM through 4.10 gears, then have a 6.0L running at 5000 RPM to pull the same load.
The LS-based motors definitely have the power for pulling, but that power is nearly useless when you have to run the engine at near WOT to pull some grades. I can pull the same grades, at the same speed in my old 350 but only be turning 3000 RPM.
Better options would be a diesel or a big block, but not all of us have the money to dish out.
Personally, if I can dig up a 454 before summer of next year, that is what will be taking home in my truck. I have time and connects, not everyone has that luxury.
11-24-2009, 02:38 PM
#14
He is changing from a 3.23 axle to a 4.10 axle, more then making up for any loss. He is changing axles to withstand the payload of the rear axle. A stock 10 bolt isn't going to put up with that much weight for long.
I don't know how much you tow. I would much rather have a torquey V6 chumming along at 3500 RPM through 4.10 gears, then have a 6.0L running at 5000 RPM to pull the same load.
The LS-based motors definitely have the power for pulling, but that power is nearly useless when you have to run the engine at near WOT to pull some grades. I can pull the same grades, at the same speed in my old 350 but only be turning 3000 RPM.
Better options would be a diesel or a big block, but not all of us have the money to dish out.
Personally, if I can dig up a 454 before summer of next year, that is what will be taking home in my truck. I have time and connects, not everyone has that luxury.
I don't know how much you tow. I would much rather have a torquey V6 chumming along at 3500 RPM through 4.10 gears, then have a 6.0L running at 5000 RPM to pull the same load.
The LS-based motors definitely have the power for pulling, but that power is nearly useless when you have to run the engine at near WOT to pull some grades. I can pull the same grades, at the same speed in my old 350 but only be turning 3000 RPM.
Better options would be a diesel or a big block, but not all of us have the money to dish out.
Personally, if I can dig up a 454 before summer of next year, that is what will be taking home in my truck. I have time and connects, not everyone has that luxury.
1.) Good he's changing gear ratios, now he did all that work just to get right back where he was in the first place.
2.) The 10 bolts are plenty strong, it's the G80 that is a piece of crap. There are guys cutting 1.5x 60's, others running 44" tires, and others towing 17,000 pound all on the 10 bolt. It's plenty strong.
3.) Any gen III/IV v8 engine makes more power than the factory 4.3L. To put it simply, it's a dated engine that was designed off of the 350 gen I chevy small block. The RPM discrepancies you speak of are just transmission and gearing issues, that any engine in front of those would see.
11-24-2009, 03:23 PM
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I can also tell you that if you carry weight in your bed such as the OP is talking about, you will eventually bend a 10 bolt or just eat the crap out of bearings. I have seen it many times over. The heavier axle is designed to carry that weight and will not eat the bearings. If 10 bolts axles are so strong, why aren't they in 3/4 tons and 1 tons. Why don't we see built off road trucks bragging about their killer strong 10 bolts. That's because they aren't strong. If you use a truck like a truck, a 10 bolt will not cut it. I have seen guys spend a ton on 10 bolts to try to make them hold up, only to jerk them out to run a bigger axle.
3.) Any gen III/IV v8 engine makes more power than the factory 4.3L. To put it simply, it's a dated engine that was designed off of the 350 gen I chevy small block. The RPM discrepancies you speak of are just transmission and gearing issues, that any engine in front of those would see.
The 4.3L peak tq is in the same place a stock 350, right about 2500-3000 RPM. So my statement of taking the OP taking his time, the power is more manageable and he isn't going to blow his engine into tiny pieces. Like I said, I would want more power then the OP is getting from his 4.3L, but I can totally see where he is coming from with his little V6.
I had much rather spend my day running down the road at 3,000 RPM, then run down the road turning 5,500 RPM any day of the week. Side by side, I would rather run a lower HP old school 350 then anything LS-based.
The OP didn't say anything about his truck being under powered. He said he was worried about the weight on the axle. You apparently have no understanding of pulling or hauling any amount of weight. I can say that with confidence, because I have never seen a dump truck on a pair of 10 bolts.
If everyone had your money and mentality, we would all be broke and wondering why are junk still won't do what we want it to do.
Last edited by cttandy; 11-24-2009 at 03:47 PM.
11-24-2009, 04:44 PM
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For some reason I am annoyed by just about every single one of your posts on this website. Perhaps it's your constant praise of your fleet of 1989 and older vehicles, that oddly enough leave you stranded more often than not. But hey, they don't build them like they used to right?
He's hauling a travel trailer not a 30,000 pound trailer so let's not compare apples to oranges like you keep attempting to do.
I'm very aware how gears work and how they multiply torque so save me the physics lesson.
As far as your failures with 10 bolts, it sucks to be you. Unlike you however, I look at the big picture. How many people are blowing up 8.625 10 bolts when towing(when you find them, please link me).
If you want to call me out, I personally have had plenty of success with a 10 bolt. I've pulled a 10,000 pound 2 horse travel trailer without issue across Texas on several occasions.
In my girlfriend's tahoe, we've loaded it down with ~2000 pounds of Tile, tools, hardware, etc and driven it 375 miles from Austin to Lawton. That's a very similar weight to what he is comparing to.
But hey the newest vehicle you own is only a year younger than I am so what would I know?
He's hauling a travel trailer not a 30,000 pound trailer so let's not compare apples to oranges like you keep attempting to do.
I'm very aware how gears work and how they multiply torque so save me the physics lesson.
As far as your failures with 10 bolts, it sucks to be you. Unlike you however, I look at the big picture. How many people are blowing up 8.625 10 bolts when towing(when you find them, please link me).
If you want to call me out, I personally have had plenty of success with a 10 bolt. I've pulled a 10,000 pound 2 horse travel trailer without issue across Texas on several occasions.
In my girlfriend's tahoe, we've loaded it down with ~2000 pounds of Tile, tools, hardware, etc and driven it 375 miles from Austin to Lawton. That's a very similar weight to what he is comparing to.
But hey the newest vehicle you own is only a year younger than I am so what would I know?
None of my vehicles have ever left me stranded any where. I have probrably logged more miles in my older trucks they you have yet to drive in your newer vehicles.
I have had excellent success with 10 bolts as well, except for the one in my current truck which was damaged from the previous owner when I bought it. When used for what they were designed, or as a car, a 10 bolt will hold up well. But when you start pushing their abilities you start eating axles. I am not comparing apples to oranges here, he is putting a 3/4 ton axle in a half ton truck because he carrying the payload of a 3/4 ton truck.
I have carried well more then a petty 2000 lbs on 10 bolt. However, if you are going to put a camper in the back of the truck and pull a trailer you are now talking about considerably more weight. The force put on the rear axle from the trailer and camper going over bumps is enough to snap that axle. The tongue weight of most travel trailers is well in excess of 1500 lbs, and generally require the use of a load leveler system.
Thank you once again to comparing your "I once did this, and once did that" to someone who is talking about doing it all the time. Once you can get away with, doing it regularly is another story. I once pulled about 15,000 lbs behind a 305 TBI/700r4/2.73/450K mile/ 5 PSI oil pressure truck. I am sure that means that any truck should be capable of doing said work all the time, all day long without fail
Once again, thank you for bringing your smart little mouth to a battle you know nothing about. Ability to do so once and ability to do so with complete dependability is 2 different things.
Oh by the way, I love dragging home new vehicles behind my old POS just after some smart little butt tells my I have a POS that is going to leave me stranded, the look on their face is priceless. Newer isn't better, older isn't worse. I prefer paid for vehicles that I can repair on the cheap and trust. I have a wife that doesn't work and 2 kids. I am more worried about the future of our family, then a shiny new vehicle in the drive way right now. If you had just spent 2 years busting your butt working for yourself and then 3 days a week to help you Dad build his business up, all while being clinically handicap, you would take your pretty little rich boy opinion and stick it your frickin ear.
In the last few years, I have sold a 2009, a 2004, a 2003, and 2 1999's. I never said any of my trucks were better then anyone else's vehicle. I did however say, that an engine that is used to constantly pull that has to constantly run 5,500 RPMs is not the vehicle for me. My truck spends nearly as much time with a trailer hooked to the hitch as it does without.
Last edited by cttandy; 11-24-2009 at 05:04 PM.
11-24-2009, 05:08 PM
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I don't get online to play the part of a cyber bully, and I don't get on to make fun of people.
The guy said he wants to do this swap, whether or not it makes perfect is not for me to decide. If he is excited to do the swap them I am happy for him. I have the same attitude towards everyone. I just get fed up with the few that get online to talk smack and treat everyone like idiots. I just offer an opinion for the questions asked.
I think the worse thing I have ever said to anyone is that it wasn't my taste, but it was still nice. Some people on here just take things way to far.
The guy said he wants to do this swap, whether or not it makes perfect is not for me to decide. If he is excited to do the swap them I am happy for him. I have the same attitude towards everyone. I just get fed up with the few that get online to talk smack and treat everyone like idiots. I just offer an opinion for the questions asked.
I think the worse thing I have ever said to anyone is that it wasn't my taste, but it was still nice. Some people on here just take things way to far.
11-24-2009, 05:27 PM
#19
None of my vehicles have ever left me stranded any where. I have probrably logged more miles in my older trucks they you have yet to drive in your newer vehicles.
I have had excellent success with 10 bolts as well, except for the one in my current truck which was damaged from the previous owner when I bought it. When used for what they were designed, or as a car, a 10 bolt will hold up well. But when you start pushing their abilities you start eating axles. I am not comparing apples to oranges here, he is putting a 3/4 ton axle in a half ton truck because he carrying the payload of a 3/4 ton truck.
I have carried well more then a petty 2000 lbs on 10 bolt. However, if you are going to put a camper in the back of the truck and pull a trailer you are now talking about considerably more weight. The force put on the rear axle from the trailer and camper going over bumps is enough to snap that axle. The tongue weight of most travel trailers is well in excess of 1500 lbs, and generally require the use of a load leveler system.
Thank you once again to comparing your "I once did this, and once did that" to someone who is talking about doing it all the time. Once you can get away with, doing it regularly is another story. I once pulled about 15,000 lbs behind a 305 TBI/700r4/2.73/450K mile/ 5 PSI oil pressure truck. I am sure that means that any truck should be capable of doing said work all the time, all day long without fail
Once again, thank you for bringing your smart little mouth to a battle you know nothing about. Ability to do so once and ability to do so with complete dependability is 2 different things.
Oh by the way, I love dragging home new vehicles behind my old POS just after some smart little butt tells my I have a POS that is going to leave me stranded, the look on their face is priceless. Newer isn't better, older isn't worse. I prefer paid for vehicles that I can repair on the cheap and trust. I have a wife that doesn't work and 2 kids. I am more worried about the future of our family, then a shiny new vehicle in the drive way right now. If you had just spent 2 years busting your butt working for yourself and then 3 days a week to help you Dad build his business up, all while being clinically handicap, you would take your pretty little rich boy opinion and stick it your frickin ear.
In the last few years, I have sold a 2009, a 2004, a 2003, and 2 1999's. I never said any of my trucks were better then anyone else's vehicle. I did however say, that an engine that is used to constantly pull that has to constantly run 5,500 RPMs is not the vehicle for me. My truck spends nearly as much time with a trailer hooked to the hitch as it does without.
I have had excellent success with 10 bolts as well, except for the one in my current truck which was damaged from the previous owner when I bought it. When used for what they were designed, or as a car, a 10 bolt will hold up well. But when you start pushing their abilities you start eating axles. I am not comparing apples to oranges here, he is putting a 3/4 ton axle in a half ton truck because he carrying the payload of a 3/4 ton truck.
I have carried well more then a petty 2000 lbs on 10 bolt. However, if you are going to put a camper in the back of the truck and pull a trailer you are now talking about considerably more weight. The force put on the rear axle from the trailer and camper going over bumps is enough to snap that axle. The tongue weight of most travel trailers is well in excess of 1500 lbs, and generally require the use of a load leveler system.
Thank you once again to comparing your "I once did this, and once did that" to someone who is talking about doing it all the time. Once you can get away with, doing it regularly is another story. I once pulled about 15,000 lbs behind a 305 TBI/700r4/2.73/450K mile/ 5 PSI oil pressure truck. I am sure that means that any truck should be capable of doing said work all the time, all day long without fail
Once again, thank you for bringing your smart little mouth to a battle you know nothing about. Ability to do so once and ability to do so with complete dependability is 2 different things.
Oh by the way, I love dragging home new vehicles behind my old POS just after some smart little butt tells my I have a POS that is going to leave me stranded, the look on their face is priceless. Newer isn't better, older isn't worse. I prefer paid for vehicles that I can repair on the cheap and trust. I have a wife that doesn't work and 2 kids. I am more worried about the future of our family, then a shiny new vehicle in the drive way right now. If you had just spent 2 years busting your butt working for yourself and then 3 days a week to help you Dad build his business up, all while being clinically handicap, you would take your pretty little rich boy opinion and stick it your frickin ear.
In the last few years, I have sold a 2009, a 2004, a 2003, and 2 1999's. I never said any of my trucks were better then anyone else's vehicle. I did however say, that an engine that is used to constantly pull that has to constantly run 5,500 RPMs is not the vehicle for me. My truck spends nearly as much time with a trailer hooked to the hitch as it does without.
I don't care about your life story, much like you don't care for mine. I simply stated that this thread was hilarious because he's replacing one of the last things I would on his truck. When I see people snapping 10 bolt axles going over bumps then I'll eat my words, but until then this thread made my day.
You felt the need to call me out, so I explained my point clear as day, then you didn't let up so I kept responding. For the record, I am more than willing to have a civilized conversation on the matter, but if you're going to pull the "young dumb kid" card (one I'm quite used to), I have a few aces up my sleeve as well.
11-24-2009, 05:41 PM
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Selective reading I see. Once again I'm not surprised. My experiences, were simply because you asked, not because I felt the need to share them. My point was that it has nothing to do with just my personal experiences and rather the big picture(read my post again, maybe eventually you'll see what I mean).
I don't care about your life story, much like you don't care for mine. I simply stated that this thread was hilarious because he's replacing one of the last things I would on his truck. When I see people snapping 10 bolt axles going over bumps then I'll eat my words, but until then this thread made my day.
You felt the need to call me out, so I explained my point clear as day, then you didn't let up so I kept responding. For the record, I am more than willing to have a civilized conversation on the matter, but if you're going to pull the "young dumb kid" card (one I'm quite used to), I have a few aces up my sleeve as well.
I don't care about your life story, much like you don't care for mine. I simply stated that this thread was hilarious because he's replacing one of the last things I would on his truck. When I see people snapping 10 bolt axles going over bumps then I'll eat my words, but until then this thread made my day.
You felt the need to call me out, so I explained my point clear as day, then you didn't let up so I kept responding. For the record, I am more than willing to have a civilized conversation on the matter, but if you're going to pull the "young dumb kid" card (one I'm quite used to), I have a few aces up my sleeve as well.
The only reason I tell you why I have what I have, is you for some reason feel that you are better then me because you have a newer truck. That simply isn't so.
I have seen a multitude of 10 bolt axles die disastrous deaths, not because I'm and idiot and destroy my truck, but because I worked in the used part business for several years and made a BUNCH of money selling replacement 10 bolt axles or selling customers everything to convert 1/2 tons to 3/4 tons. I also have a friend that works for the state and makes good money. He makes more money every year gathering HD chevy parts and re-saleing them to people in the area. If there was no need for stronger axles, then you have yet to tell me why 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks don't come with 10 bolt axles under them. After all, they are only designed to pull or carry the weight that the OP is talking about. 1/2 ton truck is only designed for a 1/2 ton, that's it 1000 lbs. If you have a 1/2 ton truck and find yourself needing to carry more weight but satisfied with the power, why not upgrade what you have. After all, isn't that a huge part of what are hobby is about, making vehicles into what we want them to be.
My honest opinion was not that this guy had a great idea, but it is his idea. What he wants to do, for reasons he has not shared. Why is your first reaction to bash?