Deep ANUS?
01-31-2015, 12:01 PM
#42
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Glad to see some intelligence showing up in this thread! It is nice when people reply with some decency and answer the question. Much more useful to all of us then the jerks who see my name on the thread and instantly walk in and poop in the reply box.
A pan will do very little for cooling the fluid, especially at a stand still. Added capacity will add a bit of resistance to heating up simply because you have more fluid to heat up to any given temperature. The capacity also gives a tiny bit more time before it is re-heated by going through the trans but we are talking 16% more fluid if you add 2 quarts and 25" if you are adding 3 quarts so it isn't much.
Your opinion may differ but from the facts that I can find they are as useful as a tornado. If the cost of the pan makes you feel more comfortable, that is it's value.
A pan will do very little for cooling the fluid, especially at a stand still. Added capacity will add a bit of resistance to heating up simply because you have more fluid to heat up to any given temperature. The capacity also gives a tiny bit more time before it is re-heated by going through the trans but we are talking 16% more fluid if you add 2 quarts and 25" if you are adding 3 quarts so it isn't much.
Your opinion may differ but from the facts that I can find they are as useful as a tornado. If the cost of the pan makes you feel more comfortable, that is it's value.
01-31-2015, 12:10 PM
#43
I think the points discussed for a deep pan are valid, but I don't think they are significant enough to make much of a difference most of the time. Fluid takes longer to heat up, yes, but ultimately ends up at the same temp as a shallow pan IMO. Also, it may take longer to heat up but also takes longer to cool down. It's a wash to me. Personally I think the strongest argument made for the deep pan so far is the addition of a drain plug in cases where the stock pan doesn't have one.
$300 would be much better spent on a larger trans cooler IMO...but only when needed. The fluid is designed to work in a certain temperature range. Too hot or too cold is not good, one of the reasons why the fluid is run through the radiator in a factory application. Helps bring it up to temp faster, and also works well as a first stage to knock down temps coming off the trans before it goes to the external cooler.
Anyway, my point (which is probably worth exactly what you just paid for it
) is that I think there are some specific applications where a deep pan is beneficial, but I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who buy them will see very little to no benefit from them. To each their own though, it's your money.
$300 would be much better spent on a larger trans cooler IMO...but only when needed. The fluid is designed to work in a certain temperature range. Too hot or too cold is not good, one of the reasons why the fluid is run through the radiator in a factory application. Helps bring it up to temp faster, and also works well as a first stage to knock down temps coming off the trans before it goes to the external cooler.
Anyway, my point (which is probably worth exactly what you just paid for it
) is that I think there are some specific applications where a deep pan is beneficial, but I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who buy them will see very little to no benefit from them. To each their own though, it's your money.
02-01-2015, 11:53 AM
#44
Does anyone actually have data for the extra cooling capacity of the deep pans with fins? Seems like very little of the fluid would actually have enough contact with the pan to benefit, and the rest of the extra fluid would act as an insulator. I'd almost think that a shallow pan with fins would cool better than a deep pan with fins. I'd also be interested to see what the airflow under the truck looks like to see how much was actually passing through the fins. My feeling is that the cooling surface area and the thickness of the pan material would not lend itself well to pulling heat away from the fluid, and airflow under the truck probably does not travel smoothly through the fins in the pan. If you think about an actual cooler, the material is very thin and the surface area used to cool everything is HUGE, much more than you'd get from the pan.
Does any of this make a difference? I don't know...the extra surface area of the pan definitely can't hurt cooling, but I question how much it actually helps.
Does any of this make a difference? I don't know...the extra surface area of the pan definitely can't hurt cooling, but I question how much it actually helps.
02-01-2015, 06:51 PM
#45
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Thermodynamics. The Law of thermal conduction. Its all about heat transfer.
Oil gets hot because of this. More oil to pump through the system means each oil molecule is in contact with each piece of metal for less time, This also means each oil molecule is in the pan for longer and therefore transfers more heat to the metal pan which is cooled by ambient air temp.
There is no insulation effect with hot oil on top of cool oil...the turbulence in the pan will mix them...they will equal out in temp quite quickly so the hotter oil will get cooler and the cooler oil will get hotter...the more cool oil there is the more heat can dissipate into it without much increase.
This also means that there is more oil to transfer the heat of the trans into, thereby increasing the oil's capacity to cool.
Finned pans mean more surface area in contact with the air and therefore more heat transfer to the air.
The other benefit of finned pans and large capacity pans are that they are usually constructed of Aluminum alloy, which has a greater ability to conduct heat than steel does. Hence the reason coolers are Aluminum construction, they used to use copper when Aluminum was expensive. Copper is even better at transferring heat....copper bottom pots and pans for example, and even if they don't have copper bottoms...they usually sandwich a piece of aluminum into the bottom of stainless pans.
Do you need a deep pan...absolutely not. You don't even need an external oil cooler....as long as your not cooking the trans during your daily dealings. Lost of transmissions are cooled by a section in the cold side of the rad..and that had been done for years.
I don't think there is really a wrong answer to how to cool....but saying that a deep pan does nothing is most definitely wrong.
For the record..deep pans are 50-200 bucks...with the standard being 150 (200 for a 4L80). I have no idea where this $300 number got pulled from as the standard... maybe a TCI or Mag Hy-Tec...but those look cool too...so that has a lot to do with it.
That cool looking Derale pan with the pipes through it, previously posted, is only 150 bucks...but its made of steel. Also, it says on its site that this pan can cool fluid by 20-50*, and adds 4.5 quarts of fluid. That's as much as a standard fluid cooler say 7"x15" with 6 cooling rows, they claim 20-30* cooling.
Fan coolers claim up to 70-95* on average. A cheap one is 150 Bucks and go to about 500 bucks, depending on size and name brand
You can add a pan for 150, and get up to 50* more cooling, or change out your old cooler and increase cooling by up to 65*...(95*- 30*) for the same 150 bucks.
Oil gets hot because of this. More oil to pump through the system means each oil molecule is in contact with each piece of metal for less time, This also means each oil molecule is in the pan for longer and therefore transfers more heat to the metal pan which is cooled by ambient air temp.
There is no insulation effect with hot oil on top of cool oil...the turbulence in the pan will mix them...they will equal out in temp quite quickly so the hotter oil will get cooler and the cooler oil will get hotter...the more cool oil there is the more heat can dissipate into it without much increase.
This also means that there is more oil to transfer the heat of the trans into, thereby increasing the oil's capacity to cool.
Finned pans mean more surface area in contact with the air and therefore more heat transfer to the air.
The other benefit of finned pans and large capacity pans are that they are usually constructed of Aluminum alloy, which has a greater ability to conduct heat than steel does. Hence the reason coolers are Aluminum construction, they used to use copper when Aluminum was expensive. Copper is even better at transferring heat....copper bottom pots and pans for example, and even if they don't have copper bottoms...they usually sandwich a piece of aluminum into the bottom of stainless pans.
Do you need a deep pan...absolutely not. You don't even need an external oil cooler....as long as your not cooking the trans during your daily dealings. Lost of transmissions are cooled by a section in the cold side of the rad..and that had been done for years.
I don't think there is really a wrong answer to how to cool....but saying that a deep pan does nothing is most definitely wrong.
For the record..deep pans are 50-200 bucks...with the standard being 150 (200 for a 4L80). I have no idea where this $300 number got pulled from as the standard... maybe a TCI or Mag Hy-Tec...but those look cool too...so that has a lot to do with it.
That cool looking Derale pan with the pipes through it, previously posted, is only 150 bucks...but its made of steel. Also, it says on its site that this pan can cool fluid by 20-50*, and adds 4.5 quarts of fluid. That's as much as a standard fluid cooler say 7"x15" with 6 cooling rows, they claim 20-30* cooling.
Fan coolers claim up to 70-95* on average. A cheap one is 150 Bucks and go to about 500 bucks, depending on size and name brand
You can add a pan for 150, and get up to 50* more cooling, or change out your old cooler and increase cooling by up to 65*...(95*- 30*) for the same 150 bucks.
