slowfive0

Anyone seen or use this product yet? Basically a revised input drum setup that allows more 3/4 clutches/steels and alleviates the snap ring blow out problem.............I have a call into their tech support now to obtain more info.

Obviously, once you get the right parts inside these transmissions and can get it to live, the limiting factor seems to be the 3/4 clutch. There are some of these transmissions in 8 second cars, but they change the 3/4 clutches regularly. If this drum does what it appears it might.......

http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/77733-06K.pdf

TIM Z

iTrader: (12)

Dont bet the farm on it, 60e's wont last in a high horsepower heavy vehicle-Fact

I dont believe its a good idea to add more clutches/steels, to do this you have to use thinner material, and heat warps the thinner items.

Before someone says, " well this 60e in this truck is fine or in this car holding power" Think about the physical SIZE of the clutches and inner workings of a 60e and compare them to an 80e and see why they dont last.

Ive burned up a total of 4 60E's in my time as a member here, 3-4 clutches just dont last in them.

I just hate to see people dump lots of money in something that wont last.

TXsilverado

iTrader: (19)

i think this is a part that vince was wanting to put into my next 65e. not 100% sure but there was some new part on the market that's pretty dang expensive that he was wanting me to try out. maybe he will weigh in.

chevrolet all the way

iTrader: (24)

a 4l60e 3-4 clutch pack has long been a problem to be chased. The common problems with the 3-4s is centrifical force causing a leak in the apply piston, warping of the apply plate, and poor build quality.

the actual holding of the clutches in 4l60Es is not usually the problem. the damage comes from apply time. Yes an 80E has bigger parts, but (no dick jokes please) size isnt all that matters.

i have several 60Es holding big power with few parts and good builds. My personal truck i daily drive very hard and take to the track. on low boost im running low 7s in the 1/8th and have no problems.

the reinforced drum will serve more purpose than the 3-4 clutch changes IMO. based off several different setups several different people have been running for years and the problems they run into.

nonnieselman

iTrader: (10)

Thats pretty cool.. but i still wont trust them or spend that kinda money on one when junkyard 80Es are plentiful..

slowfive0

Agreed, this trans will never have the capacity of an 80, but it also won't rob the power that the 80 robs either. If it can be made to live, obviously it might be the better choice for many people as they could just upgrade it (pay there money, bolt in new beefy 4L65e trans, and drive off problem free) instead of dealing with an 80 swap (different driveshafts, wiring, tune files, crossmembers, cooler lines, etc).

To be fair, they have been able to make these transmissions hold up into the 8 second range. That's pretty impressive imo. Given the weight of our vehicles is what really kills us, and their 8's might be 11's for us. Either way, the 3/4 clutch becomes the issue because it is only physically so large in diameter and that can't be changed. To increase the capacity, you would need larger diameter clutches (can't do it), or more clutches and or more line pressure. More line pressure comes at an expense of increased drag and wear along with potential parts breakage (pistons and what not) so there is a limit there on what is feasible in typical builds. That leaves more clutches----like you said the only way has been to use thinner clutches/steels and then you have the heat issue and the tendency of the plates to warp and fail. Not enough material in the steels at that point to get rid of the heat.

Fast forward to now. This drum using some ingenuity and thought is taking a different approach to getting more clutches/steels (not thin useless parts either) into the drum thereby increasing the capacity! HALLELUJAH!!!!!!! Bonus is the new design also alleviates the common problem of blowing out the snap ring (usually due to too much line pressure ---- see comments above).

I'm very excited and have an open mind here..........I'm very interested in what Vince and others have to say here and will be testing this out in the next couple of weeks if the feedback is positive.

TIM Z

iTrader: (12)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for this thread to be a 60 vs. 80 discussion,

Infact I would love to see someone that Can make a 60e last for ALL of us , not just a lucky few, I would be richer and time ahead if this was the case.

Are there any trucks running this setup with 500 + wheel horsepower and 5000lbs that get beat on and track time? Would be cool to hear/see .

My honest opinion is again save your money , but I'm in for results.

quicksilverado

iTrader: (8)

How often do you freshen up your 60e Blake?

AKlowriderZ71

iTrader: (22)

Blake, do you even get into 3rd gear in the 1/8th?

slowfive0

No, I didn't take it that way at all. It is a valid debate. If you really abuse your vehicle, I don't think a 60 is going to hold up long in anything with any decent power regardless of the build. If nothing else, the 3/4 pack will wear and it will be in for a rebuild. That is what is so exciting about this new drum. While I don't believe it will solve world hunger, I do think it "MAY" become a viable option for people like myself that drive A LOT and do our share of track time too (50 passes a year) at moderate power levels. I would like to put together a combo to run deep into the 11's and I was resolved to the 80 route. Now I'm slowing down a little and hopeful as I check out this new product.....

Also, I agree with the other comments about the shift timing between the shifts being a major factor (excessive wear and subsequent failure of 3/4 clutch pack). Going to 2nd, the 2/4 band comes on---no big deal. Now to go to 3rd, the 2/4 band has to come off, but at the same time the 3/4 clutch pack must engage. The timing is obviously very critical. If it's off, the shift will flare or you will get a bind up condition. Neither good. Then for 4th, the 2/4 band comes on again (3/4 clutch stays on). Obviously, the 2nd to 3rd shift is the main issue.

I'm a Master ASE along with multiple GM and Ford training and certifications. I'm certified in Auto Trans too, but I don't consider myself an expert---not even close. I've built probably 12-15 trans in my life with about 1/2 being 4L60/65's. Just because I can go through one and set clearances to factory spec doesn't mean squat when it comes to units destined for applications like ours! That is what the "EXPERTS" get paid the big bucks for. Stock is stock and isn't a big deal. Companies like Sonnax have addressed the short comings of stock units and have service kits/parts to address those service issues. Kind of easy for a basic trans guy to rebuild using good shop practices and some research to stay up on what's the latest and greatest.

Now to make these trans live in 50 ton dump trucks like we drive and vettes with 800-1000 hp................that takes an Expert-----someone who has figured out the shift timing mentioned earlier, the pressures needed to make it live without killing hard parts or wearing it out prematurely, the hard and soft parts necessary to handle the power, the clearances, everything!!! Honestly, this trans has its shortcomings, but it isn't horrible either. WAYYYY to many HACKS out there rebuilding them with a catalog in one hand and they don't have a clue what it takes to make it live in the given application (myself included). Not trying to be hostile, but it's true. Basically, people like FLT and many many others have spent a ton of time figuring out what works and what doesn't. Years and years of experimentation, failure analysis, etc to get where they are today.

Sorry for the rant, but just my .03. I guess my thoughts are where there is a will, there is a way. Too many people out there pushing the envelope (or trying to) with these transmissions. Consequently, most of the weak links have been addressed within reason. Now, one of the last remaining weaknesses "MAY" have been addressed. Hopefully optimistic in MI----

Have a good day fellas......