Maybe there is hope for the 4L65e holding up in high power applications after all....
09-21-2012, 05:54 AM
#11
My 60e lasted 153,180 in my heavy crew cab in sig. I'm by no means make big power, but I tow, race, mud, etc... I beat on it hard daily for the past 110,xxx I've owned it, and a week ago today I had the exact problem stated 3/4 clutch snap ring blow out! I bought a new drum, good clutches and sunshell, bands, and transgo hd2 with vette servo. Every thing within factory spec. I thought long and hard about trying out a sleeved drum.. But in my therory if it lasted 153,xxx before, it "should" last atleast 100,xxx again with the small upgrades. My culprit we believe to the blow out was the 3/4 check ball was about pushed thru the seperator plate for some reason (wear and tear)? I plan a cam and tvs 1900 now in the very near future. I was just waiting ok thus day to come to refresh the tranny prior to doing so.
So do I believe this could of prevented the blow out, and the steels from showing signs of hot spotting, yes. But... I'll never know fwiw. My buddy who rebuilt my tranny graduated top of his class from NASCAR tech school in north Carolina, and learned to build a very strong 60e using common parts from the old name Team Tripp transmission in mooresville north Carolina.
So do I believe this could of prevented the blow out, and the steels from showing signs of hot spotting, yes. But... I'll never know fwiw. My buddy who rebuilt my tranny graduated top of his class from NASCAR tech school in north Carolina, and learned to build a very strong 60e using common parts from the old name Team Tripp transmission in mooresville north Carolina.
Last edited by whitedakota; 09-21-2012 at 06:00 AM.
09-21-2012, 07:03 AM
#12
No, I didn't take it that way at all. It is a valid debate. If you really abuse your vehicle, I don't think a 60 is going to hold up long in anything with any decent power regardless of the build. If nothing else, the 3/4 pack will wear and it will be in for a rebuild. That is what is so exciting about this new drum. While I don't believe it will solve world hunger, I do think it "MAY" become a viable option for people like myself that drive A LOT and do our share of track time too (50 passes a year) at moderate power levels. I would like to put together a combo to run deep into the 11's and I was resolved to the 80 route. Now I'm slowing down a little and hopeful as I check out this new product.....
Also, I agree with the other comments about the shift timing between the shifts being a major factor (excessive wear and subsequent failure of 3/4 clutch pack). Going to 2nd, the 2/4 band comes on---no big deal. Now to go to 3rd, the 2/4 band has to come off, but at the same time the 3/4 clutch pack must engage. The timing is obviously very critical. If it's off, the shift will flare or you will get a bind up condition. Neither good. Then for 4th, the 2/4 band comes on again (3/4 clutch stays on). Obviously, the 2nd to 3rd shift is the main issue.
I'm a Master ASE along with multiple GM and Ford training and certifications. I'm certified in Auto Trans too, but I don't consider myself an expert---not even close. I've built probably 12-15 trans in my life with about 1/2 being 4L60/65's. Just because I can go through one and set clearances to factory spec doesn't mean squat when it comes to units destined for applications like ours! That is what the "EXPERTS" get paid the big bucks for. Stock is stock and isn't a big deal. Companies like Sonnax have addressed the short comings of stock units and have service kits/parts to address those service issues. Kind of easy for a basic trans guy to rebuild using good shop practices and some research to stay up on what's the latest and greatest.
Now to make these trans live in 50 ton dump trucks like we drive and vettes with 800-1000 hp................that takes an Expert-----someone who has figured out the shift timing mentioned earlier, the pressures needed to make it live without killing hard parts or wearing it out prematurely, the hard and soft parts necessary to handle the power, the clearances, everything!!! Honestly, this trans has its shortcomings, but it isn't horrible either. WAYYYY to many HACKS out there rebuilding them with a catalog in one hand and they don't have a clue what it takes to make it live in the given application (myself included). Not trying to be hostile, but it's true. Basically, people like FLT and many many others have spent a ton of time figuring out what works and what doesn't. Years and years of experimentation, failure analysis, etc to get where they are today.
Sorry for the rant, but just my .03. I guess my thoughts are where there is a will, there is a way. Too many people out there pushing the envelope (or trying to) with these transmissions. Consequently, most of the weak links have been addressed within reason. Now, one of the last remaining weaknesses "MAY" have been addressed. Hopefully optimistic in MI----
Have a good day fellas......
Also, I agree with the other comments about the shift timing between the shifts being a major factor (excessive wear and subsequent failure of 3/4 clutch pack). Going to 2nd, the 2/4 band comes on---no big deal. Now to go to 3rd, the 2/4 band has to come off, but at the same time the 3/4 clutch pack must engage. The timing is obviously very critical. If it's off, the shift will flare or you will get a bind up condition. Neither good. Then for 4th, the 2/4 band comes on again (3/4 clutch stays on). Obviously, the 2nd to 3rd shift is the main issue.
I'm a Master ASE along with multiple GM and Ford training and certifications. I'm certified in Auto Trans too, but I don't consider myself an expert---not even close. I've built probably 12-15 trans in my life with about 1/2 being 4L60/65's. Just because I can go through one and set clearances to factory spec doesn't mean squat when it comes to units destined for applications like ours! That is what the "EXPERTS" get paid the big bucks for. Stock is stock and isn't a big deal. Companies like Sonnax have addressed the short comings of stock units and have service kits/parts to address those service issues. Kind of easy for a basic trans guy to rebuild using good shop practices and some research to stay up on what's the latest and greatest.
Now to make these trans live in 50 ton dump trucks like we drive and vettes with 800-1000 hp................that takes an Expert-----someone who has figured out the shift timing mentioned earlier, the pressures needed to make it live without killing hard parts or wearing it out prematurely, the hard and soft parts necessary to handle the power, the clearances, everything!!! Honestly, this trans has its shortcomings, but it isn't horrible either. WAYYYY to many HACKS out there rebuilding them with a catalog in one hand and they don't have a clue what it takes to make it live in the given application (myself included). Not trying to be hostile, but it's true. Basically, people like FLT and many many others have spent a ton of time figuring out what works and what doesn't. Years and years of experimentation, failure analysis, etc to get where they are today.
Sorry for the rant, but just my .03. I guess my thoughts are where there is a will, there is a way. Too many people out there pushing the envelope (or trying to) with these transmissions. Consequently, most of the weak links have been addressed within reason. Now, one of the last remaining weaknesses "MAY" have been addressed. Hopefully optimistic in MI----
Have a good day fellas......
09-21-2012, 08:01 AM
#13
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I was happy as could be with the 60 in my 04 it was a performabuilt lvl2 I beat the ever living puss out of it for two years and it never had a hiccup with a 6k or so jacked up truck and a h/c/I 6.0 infront of it.. and I do mean it was abused badly and still running just fine .. a buddy has it now and the trans still. Drives like the day I put it in
09-21-2012, 09:59 AM
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i went through it when i swapped converters and it showed 0 signs of wear. it only had 4-5k on it then. i have since put another at least 5-6k on it. no pparts were replaced then except gaskets for the teardown
yes i do! i also drive it daily very hard and it gets lots of wot 2-3 shifts. already had two today actually lol
mine only weighs around 4500lbs but is certainly over 500hp and 600ft lbs on low boost (low boost is 12psi and i have ran the truck on 20psi just not at the track) its my DD, i used it to move, street fun, track every week, and cruising of course
power rob of an 80E is not as much as people think. the biggest issue is the extra weight and the much taller 1st gear. thats what actually slows people down. going from a 3.06 first to a 2.48. 2nd is closer so its not as big of a deal 80E 1.48 vs 60E 1.63. also a little taller od in a 60e is a plus but a tiny amount.
i have built several 60Es for people that have been more than happy making similar power.
yes i do! i also drive it daily very hard and it gets lots of wot 2-3 shifts. already had two today actually lol
I'm sorry, I didn't mean for this thread to be a 60 vs. 80 discussion,
Infact I would love to see someone that Can make a 60e last for ALL of us , not just a lucky few, I would be richer and time ahead if this was the case.
Are there any trucks running this setup with 500 + wheel horsepower and 5000lbs that get beat on and track time? Would be cool to hear/see .
My honest opinion is again save your money , but I'm in for results.
Infact I would love to see someone that Can make a 60e last for ALL of us , not just a lucky few, I would be richer and time ahead if this was the case.
Are there any trucks running this setup with 500 + wheel horsepower and 5000lbs that get beat on and track time? Would be cool to hear/see .
My honest opinion is again save your money , but I'm in for results.
mine only weighs around 4500lbs but is certainly over 500hp and 600ft lbs on low boost (low boost is 12psi and i have ran the truck on 20psi just not at the track) its my DD, i used it to move, street fun, track every week, and cruising of course
power rob of an 80E is not as much as people think. the biggest issue is the extra weight and the much taller 1st gear. thats what actually slows people down. going from a 3.06 first to a 2.48. 2nd is closer so its not as big of a deal 80E 1.48 vs 60E 1.63. also a little taller od in a 60e is a plus but a tiny amount.
i have built several 60Es for people that have been more than happy making similar power.
09-21-2012, 04:43 PM
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all of this has been this year
i put around 30k on the 4.8 on spray before i tore the truck down. a blown cooler line ended up killing that trans from low fluid right after the turbo install
i put around 30k on the 4.8 on spray before i tore the truck down. a blown cooler line ended up killing that trans from low fluid right after the turbo install
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