Update on trans woes - advice/help please - long read
06-17-2008, 11:00 PM
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Update on trans woes - advice/help please - long read
So I decided to take my truck into the local trans shop which has over the years, had a good reputation, including high performance builds. I figured I would get it looked at to make sure it was the trans prior to ordering a Performabuilt. Well, while there, they really seemed to know their stuff. They provided references for local hot rodders and racers alike if I wanted to call them. They new all the talk and they took the time to go over in detail with me exactly what parts they would put in the transmission. They also came ina round $2,200 total for parts and labor. I went over everything with zippy and of course he recommended rossler over anyone, but cost and time was a huge factor. So anyways, I decided to go with them because they promised a one year warranty to stand behind the product even knowing I might take it to the track once in a while. Sounded like a safe bet to me. They normally offer a 2yr warranty on stock rebuilds.
Ok, so I get my truck towed over there. They diagnos the truck and the mechanic says, hey, your speedo goes up when given gas in gear, but the truck doesnt move. Oh really...He says that must mean the transfer unit is bad. Ok. Pull it and find out. Instead, they go ahead and pull the entire transmission and transfer case!!!! WTF??? I had specifically told them if its not the trans, lets not worry about it right now. Now they are trying to strong arm me into spending $4k on a trans and transfer case, when I'm unemployed. I hate being taken for a ride.
I asked them if there was anything wrong with the trans, and there response was they dont know until they crack it open. Well, I guess we could have just fixed the awd unit and found out if the truck drove with just that fixed. They, said, well, your trans fluid was burnt, and there was some metal particles on the magnetic plug in the pan. No chunks, no heavy friction material. They said since I already had my trans out, I might as well go ahead and rebuild it. I told them no to crack it open because I have a total lack of trust for them at this point.
The BIG msitake I made was when I went in for my quote on Monday, I wanted to just see what they would charge me to pull the trans and install performabuilts. During that discussion, it came out that they knew how much performabuilts trans were and knew who they were, didnt trash talk them. Just said they could do the same thing as him without having to worry about shipping. So they knew I was willing to drop about $3,300 for everything done at that point.
I feel like they figured I was just going to blow this money and what the hell, they would charge me for all they could get. I realize nobody knew the AWD unit was bad, but in my book, they should have called me and told me that was an issue first, then worked on the trans if it didnt completely solve the problem. Now, my back is up against a wall because I was stretching VERY thin to do the tranny now, but onyl because I thought it had to be done and wasnt going to go cheapy as a band aid.
Here are the symptoms of the truck...
When I start it, it starts fine. When I went to put it in gear, it would go into gear, all gears, but there was a god aweful ratcheting sounds coming from underneath and the truck would not move at all when gas applied or brake released. (I could push it or it would roll on a hill). The ratcheting sound got worse with RPMS. The speedo would increase in seed, but being a novice trans expert, I thought that was normal possibly.
When they pullled apart the awd unit, the main shaf that goes froma planetary type assembly into a bearing type ring gear (had teeth on the inside, looking for a picture online) was damaged. Its the shaft that transmits the power when its first enters the AWD unit. The teeth in th ring gear were totally broken and stripped away. The teeth on the corresponding shaft were warped, chewed up and pretty much not there either. Anyone with mechanical ability would know that was probably the culprit of the nasty ratcheting sound and would explain why the speedo worked, but the truck wouldnt move. It also is a great example from the mechanism of failure as well. I was leaving a stoplight at 3/4 throttle (kind of heavy) to beat some traffic to get over for the next light. It totally makes sense to me. Am I missing anything?
I dont want to spend the money on a trans, especially with them now, feeling as though they are just trying to jack up the ticket price on me. I would rather get a zippy shift kit and take my chances with the trans.
BTW, they were telling me to expect $2k to repair the AWD unit alone and even if they dont do anything to the trans, I have to pay them for pulling it and installing it.
The whole time I was there today (not the first day) They were makign comments like, WOW, you have a blower on that thing, that wasnt cheap. That muffler looks expensive, this is was an expensive truck wasnt it? They probably think I'm loaded. Sorry for the super LONG rant, but it really pisses me off when people try to screw people out of money. If they would have gone and just fixed the awd unit, called me and said good news, its only the awd, god thing you didnt order the trans, etc. I would have in a hear beat been excited and would have gone back to them to rebuild the trans when it does eventually go out. But not now. Am I going overboard here?
Ok, so I get my truck towed over there. They diagnos the truck and the mechanic says, hey, your speedo goes up when given gas in gear, but the truck doesnt move. Oh really...He says that must mean the transfer unit is bad. Ok. Pull it and find out. Instead, they go ahead and pull the entire transmission and transfer case!!!! WTF??? I had specifically told them if its not the trans, lets not worry about it right now. Now they are trying to strong arm me into spending $4k on a trans and transfer case, when I'm unemployed. I hate being taken for a ride.
I asked them if there was anything wrong with the trans, and there response was they dont know until they crack it open. Well, I guess we could have just fixed the awd unit and found out if the truck drove with just that fixed. They, said, well, your trans fluid was burnt, and there was some metal particles on the magnetic plug in the pan. No chunks, no heavy friction material. They said since I already had my trans out, I might as well go ahead and rebuild it. I told them no to crack it open because I have a total lack of trust for them at this point.
The BIG msitake I made was when I went in for my quote on Monday, I wanted to just see what they would charge me to pull the trans and install performabuilts. During that discussion, it came out that they knew how much performabuilts trans were and knew who they were, didnt trash talk them. Just said they could do the same thing as him without having to worry about shipping. So they knew I was willing to drop about $3,300 for everything done at that point.
I feel like they figured I was just going to blow this money and what the hell, they would charge me for all they could get. I realize nobody knew the AWD unit was bad, but in my book, they should have called me and told me that was an issue first, then worked on the trans if it didnt completely solve the problem. Now, my back is up against a wall because I was stretching VERY thin to do the tranny now, but onyl because I thought it had to be done and wasnt going to go cheapy as a band aid.
Here are the symptoms of the truck...
When I start it, it starts fine. When I went to put it in gear, it would go into gear, all gears, but there was a god aweful ratcheting sounds coming from underneath and the truck would not move at all when gas applied or brake released. (I could push it or it would roll on a hill). The ratcheting sound got worse with RPMS. The speedo would increase in seed, but being a novice trans expert, I thought that was normal possibly.
When they pullled apart the awd unit, the main shaf that goes froma planetary type assembly into a bearing type ring gear (had teeth on the inside, looking for a picture online) was damaged. Its the shaft that transmits the power when its first enters the AWD unit. The teeth in th ring gear were totally broken and stripped away. The teeth on the corresponding shaft were warped, chewed up and pretty much not there either. Anyone with mechanical ability would know that was probably the culprit of the nasty ratcheting sound and would explain why the speedo worked, but the truck wouldnt move. It also is a great example from the mechanism of failure as well. I was leaving a stoplight at 3/4 throttle (kind of heavy) to beat some traffic to get over for the next light. It totally makes sense to me. Am I missing anything?
I dont want to spend the money on a trans, especially with them now, feeling as though they are just trying to jack up the ticket price on me. I would rather get a zippy shift kit and take my chances with the trans.
BTW, they were telling me to expect $2k to repair the AWD unit alone and even if they dont do anything to the trans, I have to pay them for pulling it and installing it.
The whole time I was there today (not the first day) They were makign comments like, WOW, you have a blower on that thing, that wasnt cheap. That muffler looks expensive, this is was an expensive truck wasnt it? They probably think I'm loaded. Sorry for the super LONG rant, but it really pisses me off when people try to screw people out of money. If they would have gone and just fixed the awd unit, called me and said good news, its only the awd, god thing you didnt order the trans, etc. I would have in a hear beat been excited and would have gone back to them to rebuild the trans when it does eventually go out. But not now. Am I going overboard here?
06-18-2008, 01:00 AM
#2
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I would say no...but if they already got the trans outta the truck might as well have them throw your shift kit and servos in it...that way it'll last a little longer till you can get that built tranny
06-18-2008, 11:56 AM
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So they come back to me today with a price of $2,300 for a transfer case installed. Plus, the $2,300 for the transmission. So now I am up to $4,600. I told them I am going to come get the truck on a flat bed and to box up my parts. I'm going to order a rebuilt transfer case from www.drivetrain.com and order a performabuilt level III trans with converter. about $2,600 for the trans and converter from performabuilt and about $950+core for the transfer case. Thats $3,500 + I either pay someone to install it or since everything is already pulled, go ahead and install it myself. So I can still be out of this for about $4k and probably end up with a far better quality product in my truck.
They told me the transfer case was $2k and they were only charging me $300 for labor on the transfer case. I called the dealer and they said a new transfer case complete was about $1600 including tax. So the shop was marking it up $400 or more since they probably get a break. I know they are in the business to make money, but this rediculous. Especially when they know I am a ver cost conscious customer. Also, I told him that I could get one for about $800 out of the local junk yard with less than 10k on it. He said I was lying and that he had called the same junk yard and they told him $1,400. Yeah...probably with his $600 mark up included it was. I talked to the local junk yard personally not 5 minutes before I called him. I'm so done.
All this stress is almost so not worth it. All this comes wonderfully at the time of finals this week and next at college. I might just have to pull the supercharger and sell it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the built trans. Tough choices to make...but maybe necessary. Maybe even sell the truck itself at this point.
They told me the transfer case was $2k and they were only charging me $300 for labor on the transfer case. I called the dealer and they said a new transfer case complete was about $1600 including tax. So the shop was marking it up $400 or more since they probably get a break. I know they are in the business to make money, but this rediculous. Especially when they know I am a ver cost conscious customer. Also, I told him that I could get one for about $800 out of the local junk yard with less than 10k on it. He said I was lying and that he had called the same junk yard and they told him $1,400. Yeah...probably with his $600 mark up included it was. I talked to the local junk yard personally not 5 minutes before I called him. I'm so done.
All this stress is almost so not worth it. All this comes wonderfully at the time of finals this week and next at college. I might just have to pull the supercharger and sell it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the built trans. Tough choices to make...but maybe necessary. Maybe even sell the truck itself at this point.
06-18-2008, 12:11 PM
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Theres a 4L65E and Tcase for sale over on GMFullsize right now. He may separate. Its worth a shot. Not sure if the 4x4 and AWD Tcases are the same?
http://www.gmfullsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114867
http://www.gmfullsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114867
06-18-2008, 12:13 PM
#5
i went through the same exact thing, except i broke mine while on the hwy, got off to fill up and it wouldnt go in reverse, made a horrible grinding noise, and then it wouldnt move at all. i opened up every phone book i could find and called every place in like 50 cities, until i found one that would do the performance upgrades, the beast sunshell, and the hardened plates, and they rebuilt the entire thing, with a 2yr warranty for 1600. But my transfer case was still ok, you are running more power than i am.
06-18-2008, 03:25 PM
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I think trevert1 (sp?) should chime in here. 
Always wondered (despite seeing posts about it) how the 4L6xE series transmissions TRULY faired behind FI applications. I'd definitely look at one of PT's performance trans sponsors. No sense in paying performance-build prices for stock rebuilt products. 
Always wondered (despite seeing posts about it) how the 4L6xE series transmissions TRULY faired behind FI applications. I'd definitely look at one of PT's performance trans sponsors. No sense in paying performance-build prices for stock rebuilt products.
06-18-2008, 03:43 PM
#7
Man I am sorry to hear about your story , I have seen the XFER case before. We had a guy who ordered a trans from us because his old one lost reverse went forward fine well he put in the new trans and same thing . Was the transfer case! A good trick to do to see if it is , Place the truck in a gear whichever direction it wont go, The rev engine a littlle and place it quickly into park, If you hear a loud ratcheting noise then its likley not the trans but the transfer case.
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06-18-2008, 04:42 PM
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the ratcheting sound starts the second it comes out of park and continues until it goes back in. unfortunately, I cant re-check it because htey pulled everything from the truck and its in pieces. Just going to get the funds together and order from you Frank. I ordered the new transfer case tonight, should be here soon.
06-18-2008, 05:16 PM
#9
the ratcheting sound starts the second it comes out of park and continues until it goes back in. unfortunately, I cant re-check it because htey pulled everything from the truck and its in pieces. Just going to get the funds together and order from you Frank. I ordered the new transfer case tonight, should be here soon.
07-04-2008, 09:47 AM
#10
Now they are trying to strong arm me into spending $4k on a trans and transfer case, when I'm unemployed. I hate being taken for a ride.
They said since I already had my trans out, I might as well go ahead and rebuild it. I told them no to crack it open because I have a total lack of trust for them at this point.
I dont want to spend the money on a trans, especially with them now, feeling as though they are just trying to jack up the ticket price on me.
The whole time I was there today (not the first day) They were making comments like, WOW, you have a blower on that thing, that wasnt cheap. That muffler looks expensive, this is was an expensive truck wasnt it? They probably think I'm loaded. Sorry for the super LONG rant, but it really pisses me off when people try to screw people out of money. If they would have gone and just fixed the awd unit, called me and said good news, its only the awd, good thing you didnt order the trans, etc. I would have in a heart beat been excited and would have gone back to them to rebuild the trans when it does eventually go out. But not now. Am I going overboard here?
They said since I already had my trans out, I might as well go ahead and rebuild it. I told them no to crack it open because I have a total lack of trust for them at this point.
I dont want to spend the money on a trans, especially with them now, feeling as though they are just trying to jack up the ticket price on me.
The whole time I was there today (not the first day) They were making comments like, WOW, you have a blower on that thing, that wasnt cheap. That muffler looks expensive, this is was an expensive truck wasnt it? They probably think I'm loaded. Sorry for the super LONG rant, but it really pisses me off when people try to screw people out of money. If they would have gone and just fixed the awd unit, called me and said good news, its only the awd, good thing you didnt order the trans, etc. I would have in a heart beat been excited and would have gone back to them to rebuild the trans when it does eventually go out. But not now. Am I going overboard here?
Them commenting on this being $$ or that, unprofessional.
So now I am up to $4,600. ...order a performabuilt level III trans with converter. about $2,600 for the trans and converter from performabuilt and about $950+core for the transfer case. Thats $3,500 + I either pay someone to install it or since everything is already pulled, go ahead and install it myself. So I can still be out of this for about $4k and probably end up with a far better quality product in my truck.
I know they are in the business to make money, but this ridiculous. Especially when they know I am a very cost conscious customer. Also, I told him that I could get one for about $800 out of the local junk yard with less than 10k on it. He said I was lying and that he had called the same junk yard and they told him $1,400. I talked to the local junk yard personally not 5 minutes before I called him.
All this stress is almost so not worth it. All this comes wonderfully at the time of finals this week and next at college. I might just have to pull the supercharger and sell it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the built trans. Tough choices to make...but maybe necessary. Maybe even sell the truck itself at this point.
I know they are in the business to make money, but this ridiculous. Especially when they know I am a very cost conscious customer. Also, I told him that I could get one for about $800 out of the local junk yard with less than 10k on it. He said I was lying and that he had called the same junk yard and they told him $1,400. I talked to the local junk yard personally not 5 minutes before I called him.
All this stress is almost so not worth it. All this comes wonderfully at the time of finals this week and next at college. I might just have to pull the supercharger and sell it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the built trans. Tough choices to make...but maybe necessary. Maybe even sell the truck itself at this point.
Back away from them.
Keep the truck & blower. Get thru school part 1st. Don't stress, & come back to re-evaluate. Again, if I'm not workin, I'll help u out if I can.
I think trever1t should chime in here. Always wondered (despite seeing posts about it) how the 4L6xE series transmissions TRULY faired behind FI applications. I'd definitely look at one of PT's performance trans sponsors. No sense in paying performance-build prices for stock rebuilt products.
Always wondered (despite seeing posts about it) how the 4L6xE series transmissions TRULY faired behind FI applications. I'd definitely look at one of PT's performance trans sponsors. No sense in paying performance-build prices for stock rebuilt products. 
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