160 deg t-stat?
01-10-2010, 05:28 PM
#41
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Since installing Lingenfelter's 180º t-stat (labeled 82ºC), my truck has been running about 7º cooler at normal operating temperature on the temp gauge (closer to 200ºF). But, this is on a factory tuned truck (for now).
I'll also point out that the Lingenfelter t-stat is made in Germany and side-by-side looks to be of much higher quality than the factory t-stat.
01-10-2010, 05:41 PM
#43
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IMO, if properly tuned, a 160* stat is a nice compliment to electric fans that are set to take advantage of the cooler stat. I've been running a 160* stat with 05 efans set at 180* on and 173* off, and my fuel mileage didn't change at all...actually, after installing the efans I noticed that I went an extra day before I had to fill up (same daily driving routine), which tells me that my gas mileage actually improved (from the efans maybe?).
With the engine running cooler, you can squeak out a little more timing before detonation occurs, and run a little higher compression before detonation occurs, not to mention, your trans will run cooler if you're using the factory cooler in the radiator.
It really depends on the application...on a stock truck, as the only mod: no, I wouldn't bother, but if you're planning things that will build heat and pressure, a 160* stat isn't a bad idea...my .02
With the engine running cooler, you can squeak out a little more timing before detonation occurs, and run a little higher compression before detonation occurs, not to mention, your trans will run cooler if you're using the factory cooler in the radiator.
It really depends on the application...on a stock truck, as the only mod: no, I wouldn't bother, but if you're planning things that will build heat and pressure, a 160* stat isn't a bad idea...my .02
01-15-2010, 01:30 PM
#44
TECH Veteran
There is alot to this from every range.
Oil temps: I agree that oil temps need to come up and if you're running the 160 stat in cold weather your oil temps will not come up enough to even get the moisture out of the oil causing the white milky film. In weather below 30 degrees I recomend running the stock thermostat for sure. Anything above that I recomend running the 160 stat.
Stock thought: GM engineered my truck with a small cam and low compression also. Neither are optimal for performance. The biggest reason for the temperature choice from GM is the all around range. They needed to pick a temperature that would work for a truck in Alaska winters and in Texas summers. The Gen III/IV motors have no problem running 200 degree temps which makes the stock stat work just fine in hot weather and a must have in locations like Alaska and Maine.
Fan temps: The biggest problem with the 160 thermostat. I commonly see the fan temps (electric fans) set too low when running these.
I have alot more to add, just got a call and have to leave. This is a very good post.
Oil temps: I agree that oil temps need to come up and if you're running the 160 stat in cold weather your oil temps will not come up enough to even get the moisture out of the oil causing the white milky film. In weather below 30 degrees I recomend running the stock thermostat for sure. Anything above that I recomend running the 160 stat.
Stock thought: GM engineered my truck with a small cam and low compression also. Neither are optimal for performance. The biggest reason for the temperature choice from GM is the all around range. They needed to pick a temperature that would work for a truck in Alaska winters and in Texas summers. The Gen III/IV motors have no problem running 200 degree temps which makes the stock stat work just fine in hot weather and a must have in locations like Alaska and Maine.
Fan temps: The biggest problem with the 160 thermostat. I commonly see the fan temps (electric fans) set too low when running these.
I have alot more to add, just got a call and have to leave. This is a very good post.
01-16-2010, 03:40 PM
#47
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I just put a 160* thermostat in when I added the cam and the 3" pulley. I haven't changed my FAL fan on set-point, which is 195*, and don't plan to drop it below this. So far the truck runs around 180* around town but the temperatures have been really cold the past couple of weeks. I've got to believe the lower t-stat has to help a little with lessening the chances of knock and/or detonation with the Maggie at high rpms, especially in high summertime temperatures. I had a small amount of knock when running WOT and high rpm in the high temperatures and the last thing I want to do is grenade my motor. I'm in the process of getting the tune lined out for the new thermostat.
Last edited by Avalanche2002; 01-16-2010 at 03:44 PM. Reason: wording bad
01-16-2010, 06:35 PM
#48
TECH Veteran
Finally able to get back on here.
Fan settings: A big problem with fan settings is that most people set them too low. With my new job I've had alot of time to spend on dyno testing. The Gen III and Gen IV engines tend to make the most hp at temps between 167-184 degrees round about. Running a 160 degree thermostat in a Gen III/IV engine runs the coolant temps around 167-174 degrees with good airflow through the radiator. This makes for about ideal temps when driving around town since your temps will commonly vary about 10 degrees which would put your coolant temps around 167-184 degrees. As for power you should be in your best temperature range for making power during most of your driving time. The lower temp stat also allows you to run your fan settings up to a large gap just as the stock setup does. The factory stat is a 187 degree stat and runs around 192-194 almost dead on with constant airflow and the fans don't even turn on until 227. This leaves you very little room when cruising around to keep the temps below 200 unless you run the fans constantly. With a 160 stat you should be running fan settings of around 195 on and 174 off or round about. I often see fan settings coming on considerably lower than that which doesn't gain anything other than working the alternator to death and the fan motors. The whole point of electric fans are to cool the engine down and then shut off, not keep it at a consistant temperature by running constantly. The clutch fan is pretty much designed to only engage heavily when air temps post radiator are high to attempt to cool the radiator back down. The same idea pretty much applies to both over the old system of running the fan directly off the water pump without a clutch. You want as little drag on the engine at all times. This is a common place for some to lose milage. Many will set the fans to come on at temps like 180 degrees or so because they are obsessed with the engine running cool (which has no gains with fans constantly on) that they end up losing milage by putting a heavy draw on the alternator. The stock GM fans for example both on high draw almost the same power as running the a/c without fans on. We all know that running the a/c drops fuel milage.
Underhood temps: Here is an issue where the engine temp itself is as important as the heat it creates under the hood. If you run a temp probe under the hood of a truck with an engine that runs 200 degrees and one running 172 degrees you'll certainly notice a difference. This has an effect on IAT's pre-throttle body for sure. The intake temps are highly effected by how warm the engine is running. This is where most of the difference comes in as for how warm the engine actually is. In the old small blocks running a colder thermostat was important since the big hunk of aluminum/cast iron carrying it's fuel and air supply only gets hotter as coolant temps rise and they do so in a hurry. With the plastic style intakes there isn't nearly as much heat absorbed which is why the newer engines run so well at higher coolant temps. Magnacharged trucks will often notice a difference for the simple reason of there being a 60lb+ bulk of aluminum sitting right on top of the engine. Plain and simple heat rises and aluminum absorbs heat. A simple heat gun or temp probe of the intake base will explain my point.
Timing: You can run more timing with cooler temps. Unless you want to get fancy with your coolant temp timing tables though it isn't worth it. The lower engine bay temps will serve the biggest purpose in having the lower temp thermostat. You can still run a larger spread on the fan settings without having to get the engine well into the 200+ degree range allowing you to only run them when needed as they are designed. This is the best part of the 160 stat. You can run between 167-195 degrees consistantly and only run the fans when needed. The trans temps will also appreciate that as most run the trans fluid through the cooler in the radiator and the external cooler.
Fan settings: A big problem with fan settings is that most people set them too low. With my new job I've had alot of time to spend on dyno testing. The Gen III and Gen IV engines tend to make the most hp at temps between 167-184 degrees round about. Running a 160 degree thermostat in a Gen III/IV engine runs the coolant temps around 167-174 degrees with good airflow through the radiator. This makes for about ideal temps when driving around town since your temps will commonly vary about 10 degrees which would put your coolant temps around 167-184 degrees. As for power you should be in your best temperature range for making power during most of your driving time. The lower temp stat also allows you to run your fan settings up to a large gap just as the stock setup does. The factory stat is a 187 degree stat and runs around 192-194 almost dead on with constant airflow and the fans don't even turn on until 227. This leaves you very little room when cruising around to keep the temps below 200 unless you run the fans constantly. With a 160 stat you should be running fan settings of around 195 on and 174 off or round about. I often see fan settings coming on considerably lower than that which doesn't gain anything other than working the alternator to death and the fan motors. The whole point of electric fans are to cool the engine down and then shut off, not keep it at a consistant temperature by running constantly. The clutch fan is pretty much designed to only engage heavily when air temps post radiator are high to attempt to cool the radiator back down. The same idea pretty much applies to both over the old system of running the fan directly off the water pump without a clutch. You want as little drag on the engine at all times. This is a common place for some to lose milage. Many will set the fans to come on at temps like 180 degrees or so because they are obsessed with the engine running cool (which has no gains with fans constantly on) that they end up losing milage by putting a heavy draw on the alternator. The stock GM fans for example both on high draw almost the same power as running the a/c without fans on. We all know that running the a/c drops fuel milage.
Underhood temps: Here is an issue where the engine temp itself is as important as the heat it creates under the hood. If you run a temp probe under the hood of a truck with an engine that runs 200 degrees and one running 172 degrees you'll certainly notice a difference. This has an effect on IAT's pre-throttle body for sure. The intake temps are highly effected by how warm the engine is running. This is where most of the difference comes in as for how warm the engine actually is. In the old small blocks running a colder thermostat was important since the big hunk of aluminum/cast iron carrying it's fuel and air supply only gets hotter as coolant temps rise and they do so in a hurry. With the plastic style intakes there isn't nearly as much heat absorbed which is why the newer engines run so well at higher coolant temps. Magnacharged trucks will often notice a difference for the simple reason of there being a 60lb+ bulk of aluminum sitting right on top of the engine. Plain and simple heat rises and aluminum absorbs heat. A simple heat gun or temp probe of the intake base will explain my point.
Timing: You can run more timing with cooler temps. Unless you want to get fancy with your coolant temp timing tables though it isn't worth it. The lower engine bay temps will serve the biggest purpose in having the lower temp thermostat. You can still run a larger spread on the fan settings without having to get the engine well into the 200+ degree range allowing you to only run them when needed as they are designed. This is the best part of the 160 stat. You can run between 167-195 degrees consistantly and only run the fans when needed. The trans temps will also appreciate that as most run the trans fluid through the cooler in the radiator and the external cooler.
Good to know that my fans are set too low also lol.
01-16-2010, 10:31 PM
#50
TECH Veteran
It's honestly a common thing. 
The question on fan settings has come up alot and the answers usually vary by quite a bit. Too often are e-fans used to try to keep the temps to a specific number. It's even more suprising when you see someone who set's their fans up to run all the time. Any gain in power you have from being cooler you lose from working the alternator that hard. A funny note on that side of thought to give you an idea. While in the dyno run process of some vehicles I've done some testing with headlamps on and off. There is an average of about a 3 RWHP difference between having the headlamps on and headlamps off. I've tested that on quite a few cars/trucks and it always seems to be about 2-4RWHP. A large pair of fans such as found on a truck would probably be around a 3-6 RWHP loss when on.
The question on fan settings has come up alot and the answers usually vary by quite a bit. Too often are e-fans used to try to keep the temps to a specific number. It's even more suprising when you see someone who set's their fans up to run all the time. Any gain in power you have from being cooler you lose from working the alternator that hard. A funny note on that side of thought to give you an idea. While in the dyno run process of some vehicles I've done some testing with headlamps on and off. There is an average of about a 3 RWHP difference between having the headlamps on and headlamps off. I've tested that on quite a few cars/trucks and it always seems to be about 2-4RWHP. A large pair of fans such as found on a truck would probably be around a 3-6 RWHP loss when on.