Hit Man X

FIRST, THIS GIVES YOU A VERY DETAILED IDEA OF HOW TO BUILD A 4L60E TO TAKE SOME SERIOUS ABUSE. THIS IS INFO I HAVE COLELCTED, READ, RESEARCHED, AND PIECED TOGETHER INORDER TO FIND THE BEST POSSIBLE SOLUTION FOR THE 4L60E. I TAKE NO LIABILITY IN WHAT IS HERE, BUT IT GIVES AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT IS INCLUDED. Do not go and buy parts until you speak with a good reliable transmission builder. That way when it gets built, you and (s)he will know what to expect and how it will perform. Plan your attack, you wouldn't want to get stuck with incrorrect parts would you???

These parts are the ones included in many insanely expensive transmissions like: Transmission Center's "Raptor", Finish Line Performance's "Level IV", Level 10, Art Carr, and the like. There is no reason to spend $2500 for a transmission now that you know what to do...

THESE ARE JUST A FEW BASICS:
A quality paper and rubber kit, be sure to use new bushings too
Make sure the band clearance is right and take up the end play. End play and slop helps kill transmissions.
Throw away the "load release" springs out of the 3-4 clutch pack. Even the ATSG manual strongly suggests this!
Use high quality Raybestos frictions (blue colored) or Borg Warner frictions (tan colored) and Kolene or Turbulator steels

HARD PARTS:
29 Element Foreward Input Sprag - far better in HO applications
13 Vane Pump Conversion Kit - extra fluid flow at higher RPMs
Heavy Duty 5 Pinion Front Planetary - 5 pinions vs 4, stronger under load, hardened gears
Heavy Duty 5 Pinion Rear Planetary - 5 pinions vs 4, stronger under load, hardened gears
Heavy Duty Reaction Sun Gear Shell - limits cracking and splitting on bearing area
Heavy Duty Input Shaft and Drum - limits stress cracks on drum, limits broken shaft
Kevlar Lined 2-4 Band OR Alto 2-4 Band- greater holding capacity, less likely to break than OE
TransGo shift kit - .500 boost valve, HO Pump Spring, 1-2 accum spring, fixes problems like...3-4 burnup, 2-3 overlap, delay bangs, poor 3-2 kickdown
Superior Intermediate Super Servo - greater band holding power, much better 2-3 shifts, excellent 1-2 shifts, 35% more apply than 'Vette servo
Superior Overdrive Super Servo - greater holding power in 4th, much better 3-4 shifts, 10% more apply than OE part, comes with billet cover too

NOW THIS IS WHERE IT GETS STRANGE... First parenthesis are the preferred ways for the frictions/steel to be setup (I am pretty sure this is what FLP does...) and the second parenthesis are the factory friction/steel setup.

FRICTIONS/STEELS:
(1) Go with 7 clutches in the 3-4. This is done by using 6: .079" Steels vs the factory 5: .104"
(1a) 8: 3-4 clutches .080 and 7: 3-4 steels .060, 2: 3-4 steels .076 with 2: 3-4 pressure plates .128 with 1: 3-4 apply ring (5-tabs)

(2) 3: 4L60E Low/Reverse Frictions + 2: TH350 Low/Reverse Frictions. The 350's are .010" thicker, to take up clearance
(2a) 5: Low/Reverse Clutches .087 and 5: Low/Reverse Steels .068

(3) 2: 4L60E Reverse/Input Housing Frictions + 2: 700R4 Reverse/Input Housing Frictions. The 700R4's are thicker
(3a) 4: Reverse/Input Clutches .068 and 4: Reverse/Input Steels .078

(4) 5 Forward Clutches .070 and 5 Forward Steels .090

(5) 2: Overrun Clutches .078

THESE NEED MORE RESEARCH BY ME ON IF THESE NEED TO BE DONE OR NOT...

Use a 700R4 style pump bushing, Block the 4th accumulator, remove the servo checkball and capsule from the case, and replace with a cup plug.

Now, everyone should have a great idea of what needs to be included in their transmission. I also have a big write up on torque converters, that can be posted up if need be. Obviously if you aren't make 650HP, you don't need an insane build like this whereby a few pieces can be deleted. But as I say, Do it right the first time. No sense on doing something halfway then wishing you had done something else. If you are already spending the money, a few $100 more won't break the bank.

Let me know what you think... <img border="0" alt="[pimp]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_pimp.gif" />

GoldenVelvet

If the trucks do have a weak link it is the transmision. Befor I go after real power in my truck I will put a performance trans in. To me it just makes more sense to swap out the trany befor I lay it out over 1/4 mile stretch of road.

hodgeee

Great info, If I knew what the hell any of it means! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I will print this out, and contact a tranny build shop and they should know I hope. How much would all this cost? I have seen from transmission performance, they have a kit that includes everything you need to make the tranny handle 600hp and 640lbft of torque, for $800. This does not include the heavy duty torque converter. Is that overpriced? I am sure you seen which one I am talking about since you referenced me to them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

parish8

iTrader: (6)

i dont know anything about trannys and i see you feel that places like flp and speed inc are way overpriced. i have nothing against geting the best product for your money but when i was looking for a tranny eveyone wanted $2000 or so. i took the list from speed inc to a local shop and they wanted even more money than speed inc or flp.

exactly how much do you expect to get this done for after you buy all those parts and pay someone to put it together, i would think that a tranny rebuild would be over most peoples heads. one other thing to consider if you take a pile of parts to a local shop and have them build you a tranny there is no way they will put a warrenty on it. they are going to want to get the parts themselves to consider a warrenty.

i got my flp level IV with the 5pinion spragues for $2100 delivered, how much money did i really waste? not trying to start anything here just wondering how much there is really to save.

parish8

iTrader: (6)

i see you came up with about 1650 for your tranny, that is 450 less than i paid and thats nothing to sneeze at but some people will want to pay the extra to get "the best". like i said i got the fully loaded up(5 pinion thighamabobs) flp version for 2100shiped, they will deal and have sales on ocasion. also there warrenty is good, i broke mine only 3weeks after geting it due to a violent wheel hop/ truck bucking problem and they got me a new one out without bitching at all. they even covered shipping, they say the only thing they wont cover is damage due to overheating it.

like i said i don't know anything about trannys but i would think there is a little more to it that just puting in the good parts. flp and speed inc have a prety good reputation, goto the drivline section and those guys like these trannys up to a certain hp level.

Hit Man X

I am not doubting that their transmissions last from the bigger named guys, just their price is what shocks me. Well if my local guys aren't trust worthy, I'd go with a mail order trans too.

There is more than just the guts that make it last. Everything needs to be within very specific tolerances and super clean during build up.

To me, $500 can be applied to many other things. If I searched harder, I am pretty confident the "dealer cost" versus the "retail cost" on these parts is significant, this would make the build even less to do. $500 for a name isn't worth it to me.

Hit Man X

I am not saying that FLP or Speed Inc's are bad, they are very nice transmissions. There is no way in hell it costs $2500 for a trans like that.

Cost will be a factor depending on how indepth you go. My local tranny guys charge about $500-700 for labor for a 4 speeed OD. I had a Ford AOD build for $1300 as I brought all my parts and there were a few bad drums and other odds and ends I coudn't find.

I see the Heavy Duty Reaction Sun Gear Shell and the Heavy Duty Input Shaft and Drum as the pieces that break the easiest.

Firgure $600 for labor + $200 for clutches/steels + $250 for shift kit/servos + $250 for the 5 pinion planetaries + $250 for the Shell and Input Drum + $100 for misc parts I forget = $1650. Now, those parts are the retail listings also. If you look hard enough or have connections, you could probably get the parts for about 1/2 that. Everything is marked up for a profit.

I hardly ever see a HiPo tranny (or anything for that matter) that's has a warranty. Even if it is under a warranty, good luck sending it in. $300 to pull it out again, $150 to ship, and another $300 to reinstall...That is IF they will accept it for warranty work.

Also, if it is built locally it can be serviced locally. I trust someone I actually talk with who addresses my concerns, that builds many hi-po transmissions, and 20 years master certified tech experience more over than someone 1000's of miles from me.

$500-1000 (depending on build level) is a lot of money for me and most others. $1000 is about half my mortgage payment, $1000 is two car payments, etc. There is a lot I can do with that instead of shell it out to someone when it doesn't need to go out.

Seeing Red Again

That's some excellent info Hit Man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

I don't really think FLP and other's pricing is really that far off the mark. They could probably come down some and still make a profit. It appears that they employ a warranty costing method of pricing. It will work something like this: FLP determines their break even cost is $1200 per tranny they build. They would like a gross margin of 35% which would bring the price to $1620. They also might have a certain % of trannies they expect to get back for warranty work, let's say 20%. So then they add 20% to the price to cover the expected warranty work, and there ya go: the $2000 price tag plus shipping. They could lower the price by trying to lower their BE cost or GM, but either way they will still build in the warranty cost in the price.

Sorry, some times economist comes out in me! <img border="0" alt="[pimp]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_pimp.gif" />

hodgeee

FLP? What are the sites that you guys can purchase these trannies at. I have never been happy with any of the shops in Vegas to do the job!

parish8

iTrader: (6)

flp is finish line performance>> http://www.flp2win.com/

speed inc>> http://www.ls1speed.com/