Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
03-02-2003, 08:54 AM
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
11H,
you got alot of ***** registering at this forum. i won't tell you off because you have the right to your own OPION. but i'm sure there will be alot of other guys here that would love to. i think that is what you are trying to do is get a rise out of us. 1st of all, if you had any math skills, you can't just take 2 air mass temps and average them together and come out with a mean number (mean means average by the way, i took stats in college and was a meteorology major so i know about air masses) . each air mass (engine and ram air) has a different volume, temperature, velocity, and density when a truck is moving. dyno results are proof on paper. guys may get 8-10 RWHP on the dyno, even with the engine warmed up. you may even get 2-5 more HP due to the ram air affect when moving. the 1st mod i did to my truck was install a K&N FIPK. i noticed a difference in acceleration by seat of the pants. if you can notice a difference in seat of pants due to any mod, it is a dam good mod. i never used to spin wheels until i put that kit on. after that mod, i put on a borla cat-back. did not notice any difference, but soounded better. and then i added a HPP3. i was expecting a big difference in acceleration like i experienced with the FIPK, if not more. tell you what, i was a little disappointed because the HPP3 didn't make a difference like the K&N did. it probably was the best mod i put on my truck. and for the price, you can't beat it. i don't have any dyno numbers to show. dyno #'s can easily determine a 2-3 HP gain which cannot be easily determined by seat of pants. if i can determine that the FIPK made a seat of pants difference, then it is a good upgrade to our OEM parts that holds us LS1 guys back
you got alot of ***** registering at this forum. i won't tell you off because you have the right to your own OPION. but i'm sure there will be alot of other guys here that would love to. i think that is what you are trying to do is get a rise out of us. 1st of all, if you had any math skills, you can't just take 2 air mass temps and average them together and come out with a mean number (mean means average by the way, i took stats in college and was a meteorology major so i know about air masses) . each air mass (engine and ram air) has a different volume, temperature, velocity, and density when a truck is moving. dyno results are proof on paper. guys may get 8-10 RWHP on the dyno, even with the engine warmed up. you may even get 2-5 more HP due to the ram air affect when moving. the 1st mod i did to my truck was install a K&N FIPK. i noticed a difference in acceleration by seat of the pants. if you can notice a difference in seat of pants due to any mod, it is a dam good mod. i never used to spin wheels until i put that kit on. after that mod, i put on a borla cat-back. did not notice any difference, but soounded better. and then i added a HPP3. i was expecting a big difference in acceleration like i experienced with the FIPK, if not more. tell you what, i was a little disappointed because the HPP3 didn't make a difference like the K&N did. it probably was the best mod i put on my truck. and for the price, you can't beat it. i don't have any dyno numbers to show. dyno #'s can easily determine a 2-3 HP gain which cannot be easily determined by seat of pants. if i can determine that the FIPK made a seat of pants difference, then it is a good upgrade to our OEM parts that holds us LS1 guys back
03-02-2003, 04:26 PM
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
11H! It seems pretty simple to me, make a couple of runs with the intake tube I'm using (DJ Motorsports) and get an average time. Put the OEM intake tube on and make a couple of runs and get an average time. Then see which one quicker, it's not that simple? I could actually feel the truck didn't pull as hard with the OEM intake tube on. I'm still using the stock air box with a ram-air set up, the ram-air makes a big difference. I do agree with your opinion about the FIPK set up, when I had mine, I always felt the filter was hot.
Jim
Jim
03-02-2003, 05:09 PM
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
I've already posted on this once so I'll keep it short. Let's think for a minute on the FIPK design though. I can understand when your sitting still with the fan(s) running it might cause some hot air to get past the barrier behind the filter.
But when you start moving the area behind the headlight becomes a naturally high pressure area. To get hot air to the filter once your moving you'd actually have to push some the cold air coming in back around the headlight and out the front of the truck. Does this theory make any sence? And even if a little hot air gets in there and gets in the mix, 1% for 10 degrees would be 2.X horsepower. Would you even feel that? Just my $.02
But when you start moving the area behind the headlight becomes a naturally high pressure area. To get hot air to the filter once your moving you'd actually have to push some the cold air coming in back around the headlight and out the front of the truck. Does this theory make any sence? And even if a little hot air gets in there and gets in the mix, 1% for 10 degrees would be 2.X horsepower. Would you even feel that? Just my $.02
03-02-2003, 05:28 PM
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Y2K Silverado:
<strong> I do agree with your opinion about the FIPK set up, when I had mine, I always felt the filter was hot.
Jim </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">jim, next time you go for a drive as soon as you get home pull of yur intake lid and feel yur filter. no matter what kind of filter yur using (panel, cone, whatever) or if its in the stock airbox or open like the K&N the filter will be hot.
<strong> I do agree with your opinion about the FIPK set up, when I had mine, I always felt the filter was hot.
Jim </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">jim, next time you go for a drive as soon as you get home pull of yur intake lid and feel yur filter. no matter what kind of filter yur using (panel, cone, whatever) or if its in the stock airbox or open like the K&N the filter will be hot.
03-02-2003, 11:07 PM
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
BIGTEX
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Obviously you don't know what your talking about since wide open throttle (open loop) uses pre-defined air fuel ratios and doesn't rely on O2 sensors at all. Ltrims are derived from O2 data during normal driving (closed loop) and would play no part what so ever on a dyno. Learn your stuff before you start posting here. :b
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At first glance, it appears I have been beat by your response... BUT, I do know my stuff ... a Dyno can be used for more than WOT max power measurements right? (My shop has done it a lot when tuning) ... Also, when you roll into the gas on the rollers, you don't hit WOT right away right? (unless you are intending to hurt the driveline) You pass through partial throttle (closed loop)... this is the period where you either see a gain off-partial-throttle or not ... You can also with EFILive, hold the tranny in any gear, and measure hp from tip-in off idle to red line ... BTW, If you read all my "crap" you would realize the thrust of the post was that aftermarket kits were not worth the $$$ over the oem air box and tube, and my dyno sheets never showed a gain, and the partial throttle merits were also discussed not only the Max HP potential, which it seems you guys are fixating on as you bash my post ... the only gain we saw was tip-in and throttle response on some kits, which equates to TQ increase on a dyno graph ... But HP was not made with any of them after a trip around town ... The SOP feel you get is throttle response, not HP gain... IMHO
KEUKAZ71,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> you got alot of ***** registering at this forum. i won't tell you off because you have the right to your own OPION. but i'm sure there will be alot of other guys here that would love to. i think that is what you are trying to do is get a rise out of us. 1st of all, if you had any math skills, you can't just take 2 air mass temps and average them together and come out with a mean number (mean means average by the way, i took stats in college and was a meteorology major so i know about air masses) . each air mass (engine and ram air) has a different volume, temperature, velocity, and density when a truck is moving.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A lot of *****? Hey, I'm just here to defend myself from slander... I didn't start it, you guys referenced a post from another forum that was illegally copied and pasted there (pickuptrucks.com)... I mean hey, how would you like it if you saw your post floating around copied and pasted, and bashed all over the net? When my intentions were to help people on my board? Even if most of it is theory/opinion, you guys don't have the right to bash it if you don't like it... I'm sure if you came over to "my" home forum, and took against me, my guys would jump you too... I just was shocked to see this on 2 forums, and at first was flattered, but as I read, I was disappointed to see people take such harsh position against it... I have to say, my write up may be picked apart and argued by folks that might refute pieces of it, but you must admit it gives a nice perspective into intakes... I mean, wrote that from the hip; not from some 3 day study... I'm sure there are points to argue... That's why it's a forum... To give different views on what might be, and not be... I apologize for taking such a harsh response to this thread, but hey, I think you would react similarly if you found the same... Now I want you to help me realize this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 1st of all, if you had any math skills, you can't just take 2 air mass temps and average them together and come out with a mean number (mean means average by the way, i took stats in college and was a meteorology major so i know about air masses) . each air mass (engine and ram air) has a different volume, temperature, velocity, and density when a truck is moving.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where did I create a MEAN? I created an estimation based on how various intakes are designed... And a ball park conclusion... It was in no way a mathematical study... It was an estimation... Understand, the way I write has a sense of literalism, but not necessarily definitive...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">if i can determine that the FIPK made a seat of pants difference, then it is a good upgrade to our OEM parts that holds us LS1 guys back
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Could this be throttle response at work? Or HP gain? I have had 4 kits, and it sure felt like my FIPK made power !!! ... But it didn't make any max gains on the dyno... Which ticked me off, I could have swore it did... For example... NGK TR55's and Taylor wires sure as hell make the truck feel faster, and the 0-60 Gtech might show a gain, but on a dyno, if you measure off-idle power, the curve starts off higher down low, but makes no mid or max gain... There are 2 worlds to look at, HP gain, and acceleration gain... The thread I wrote focused on HP gain, and made a strong case for the oem system Vs. paying $300 or so on an aftermarket intake... Some of them are better than others by design, but in the new vortec trucks, are not worth the $ ... Again, my opinion... And hey, thanks for not telling me off... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
JWRENCH,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 11H: I can't speak for the other boards, but I think everyone here has already seen and felt the benefits of replacing their intake so it's gonna be a pretty hard sell over here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't register to "sell" anything... I was irritated by the negativity I was hearing about my post that YOUR menbers introduced in this thread... Personally, if I saw this as a well mannered discussion, I would've passed by and smiled... But as I read, I felt I didn't deserve some of what was said... Like this guy that and this guy this... I'm sure you would feel the same if someone talked down at you in another forum, and they didn't even give you a fair shake on the whole thread... Some just have to nitpick to death to be right, and I tell you, I don't claim to be 100% right, but I have a good grasp on what makes new GM mouse motros run better and faster... I was not intending to step on anyone's toes; mine were being stepped on, I defended, and none of you guys even know me... Not to mention, you guys found it off another forum where it was improperly copied from mine... Which added to my frustration... Peace bro...
Y2K SILVERADO,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 11H! It seems pretty simple to me, make a couple of runs with the intake tube I'm using (DJ Motorsports) and get an average time. Put the OEM intake tube on and make a couple of runs and get an average time. Then see which one quicker, it's not that simple? I could actually feel the truck didn't pull as hard with the OEM intake tube on. I'm still using the stock air box with a ram-air set up, the ram-air makes a big difference. I do agree with your opinion about the FIPK set up, when I had mine, I always felt the filter was hot.
Jim
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seems like you are pretty level headed, so an apology is in order... If you read my responses above, you will see where my brashness came from... I'll go back and edit some of my post...
To respond to you:
I think you do more than 90% of modders do... You at least get a differential measurement based on testing... Nice... It seems like you have a hybrid combination of parts that work well on your specific set-up... You might have struck the right balance... Now, because you saw a loss with the oem setup in your 0-60 times, doesn't mean you have lost max power... It could mean that the set-up you have that does better, optimizes the torque and HP output of the rpm band you visit from 0 to 60... I have seen cars that make broader power curves beat cars with higher sharp power curves all the time... The engine drops rpm in every gear, and if it drops too far from it's best power curve, it will be slower at acceleration... For example, a 2001 Z28 (LS1) auto with 2.73 gears will dyno about 295 HP, VS a 1997 Z28 (LT1) auto 2.73 will dyno about 255 HP ... They both run 1/4 mile, and both get traction... They will both run a low 14 or so ... The LS1 makes a peak HP number about 40 to 50 more than the LT1, but how does the LT1 run the same? It has a fatter power curve meaning the power comes on sooner... Now the vehicles that I have seen dyno sheets on had new complete kits installed... not hybrids... And they were basically stock, so we could measure as close to an accurate baseline a possible... Add cat backs, and other stuff, and the bar goes all over the place... I realize the way I write is pretty literal, but understand, it is a downfall of mine, and believe me, it has raised some argument on my board too... But that's what makes forums fun... Extreme differences in people... Even though I am the way I am, I'm still a Moderator over there, and was nominated by a lot of guys... They realize I can be picked apart, and I have been... But the definitive answer will always evade us as long as we have so many variables in the equasion... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
JWRENCH,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> But when you start moving the area behind the headlight becomes a naturally high pressure area. To get hot air to the filter once your moving you'd actually have to push some the cold air coming in back around the headlight and out the front of the truck. Does this theory make any sence? And even if a little hot air gets in there and gets in the mix, 1% for 10 degrees would be 2.X horsepower. Would you even feel that? Just my $.02
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, there will be some evacuation of hot air in this instance, and as long as the IAT picks up the difference, you will make more power... But this is one single aspect of the situation, even though you're right on this point, can you look at the whole picture and justify the $300 purchase? If you can, cool... I was just trying to tell everyone on the other board that the oem setup has some pretty strong merits, and it's not a mis-matched POS ... It can flow about 100 to 125 CFM more than what the 5.3 needs and it maintains a ZERO psi or (0"Hg) with all oem components (providing there's a clean filter in place) ... If you can maintain a 0"Hg value within the entire rpm range, in an intake tract, you will not lose HP... A -1"Hg (-.5psig) in an intake tract will net about a 3% HP loss ...
11H ... And peace to all ...
<small>[ March 02, 2003, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: 11H ]</small>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Obviously you don't know what your talking about since wide open throttle (open loop) uses pre-defined air fuel ratios and doesn't rely on O2 sensors at all. Ltrims are derived from O2 data during normal driving (closed loop) and would play no part what so ever on a dyno. Learn your stuff before you start posting here. :b
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At first glance, it appears I have been beat by your response... BUT, I do know my stuff ... a Dyno can be used for more than WOT max power measurements right? (My shop has done it a lot when tuning) ... Also, when you roll into the gas on the rollers, you don't hit WOT right away right? (unless you are intending to hurt the driveline) You pass through partial throttle (closed loop)... this is the period where you either see a gain off-partial-throttle or not ... You can also with EFILive, hold the tranny in any gear, and measure hp from tip-in off idle to red line ... BTW, If you read all my "crap" you would realize the thrust of the post was that aftermarket kits were not worth the $$$ over the oem air box and tube, and my dyno sheets never showed a gain, and the partial throttle merits were also discussed not only the Max HP potential, which it seems you guys are fixating on as you bash my post ... the only gain we saw was tip-in and throttle response on some kits, which equates to TQ increase on a dyno graph ... But HP was not made with any of them after a trip around town ... The SOP feel you get is throttle response, not HP gain... IMHO
KEUKAZ71,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> you got alot of ***** registering at this forum. i won't tell you off because you have the right to your own OPION. but i'm sure there will be alot of other guys here that would love to. i think that is what you are trying to do is get a rise out of us. 1st of all, if you had any math skills, you can't just take 2 air mass temps and average them together and come out with a mean number (mean means average by the way, i took stats in college and was a meteorology major so i know about air masses) . each air mass (engine and ram air) has a different volume, temperature, velocity, and density when a truck is moving.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A lot of *****? Hey, I'm just here to defend myself from slander... I didn't start it, you guys referenced a post from another forum that was illegally copied and pasted there (pickuptrucks.com)... I mean hey, how would you like it if you saw your post floating around copied and pasted, and bashed all over the net? When my intentions were to help people on my board? Even if most of it is theory/opinion, you guys don't have the right to bash it if you don't like it... I'm sure if you came over to "my" home forum, and took against me, my guys would jump you too... I just was shocked to see this on 2 forums, and at first was flattered, but as I read, I was disappointed to see people take such harsh position against it... I have to say, my write up may be picked apart and argued by folks that might refute pieces of it, but you must admit it gives a nice perspective into intakes... I mean, wrote that from the hip; not from some 3 day study... I'm sure there are points to argue... That's why it's a forum... To give different views on what might be, and not be... I apologize for taking such a harsh response to this thread, but hey, I think you would react similarly if you found the same... Now I want you to help me realize this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 1st of all, if you had any math skills, you can't just take 2 air mass temps and average them together and come out with a mean number (mean means average by the way, i took stats in college and was a meteorology major so i know about air masses) . each air mass (engine and ram air) has a different volume, temperature, velocity, and density when a truck is moving.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where did I create a MEAN? I created an estimation based on how various intakes are designed... And a ball park conclusion... It was in no way a mathematical study... It was an estimation... Understand, the way I write has a sense of literalism, but not necessarily definitive...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">if i can determine that the FIPK made a seat of pants difference, then it is a good upgrade to our OEM parts that holds us LS1 guys back
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Could this be throttle response at work? Or HP gain? I have had 4 kits, and it sure felt like my FIPK made power !!! ... But it didn't make any max gains on the dyno... Which ticked me off, I could have swore it did... For example... NGK TR55's and Taylor wires sure as hell make the truck feel faster, and the 0-60 Gtech might show a gain, but on a dyno, if you measure off-idle power, the curve starts off higher down low, but makes no mid or max gain... There are 2 worlds to look at, HP gain, and acceleration gain... The thread I wrote focused on HP gain, and made a strong case for the oem system Vs. paying $300 or so on an aftermarket intake... Some of them are better than others by design, but in the new vortec trucks, are not worth the $ ... Again, my opinion... And hey, thanks for not telling me off... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
JWRENCH,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 11H: I can't speak for the other boards, but I think everyone here has already seen and felt the benefits of replacing their intake so it's gonna be a pretty hard sell over here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't register to "sell" anything... I was irritated by the negativity I was hearing about my post that YOUR menbers introduced in this thread... Personally, if I saw this as a well mannered discussion, I would've passed by and smiled... But as I read, I felt I didn't deserve some of what was said... Like this guy that and this guy this... I'm sure you would feel the same if someone talked down at you in another forum, and they didn't even give you a fair shake on the whole thread... Some just have to nitpick to death to be right, and I tell you, I don't claim to be 100% right, but I have a good grasp on what makes new GM mouse motros run better and faster... I was not intending to step on anyone's toes; mine were being stepped on, I defended, and none of you guys even know me... Not to mention, you guys found it off another forum where it was improperly copied from mine... Which added to my frustration... Peace bro...
Y2K SILVERADO,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 11H! It seems pretty simple to me, make a couple of runs with the intake tube I'm using (DJ Motorsports) and get an average time. Put the OEM intake tube on and make a couple of runs and get an average time. Then see which one quicker, it's not that simple? I could actually feel the truck didn't pull as hard with the OEM intake tube on. I'm still using the stock air box with a ram-air set up, the ram-air makes a big difference. I do agree with your opinion about the FIPK set up, when I had mine, I always felt the filter was hot.
Jim
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seems like you are pretty level headed, so an apology is in order... If you read my responses above, you will see where my brashness came from... I'll go back and edit some of my post...
To respond to you:
I think you do more than 90% of modders do... You at least get a differential measurement based on testing... Nice... It seems like you have a hybrid combination of parts that work well on your specific set-up... You might have struck the right balance... Now, because you saw a loss with the oem setup in your 0-60 times, doesn't mean you have lost max power... It could mean that the set-up you have that does better, optimizes the torque and HP output of the rpm band you visit from 0 to 60... I have seen cars that make broader power curves beat cars with higher sharp power curves all the time... The engine drops rpm in every gear, and if it drops too far from it's best power curve, it will be slower at acceleration... For example, a 2001 Z28 (LS1) auto with 2.73 gears will dyno about 295 HP, VS a 1997 Z28 (LT1) auto 2.73 will dyno about 255 HP ... They both run 1/4 mile, and both get traction... They will both run a low 14 or so ... The LS1 makes a peak HP number about 40 to 50 more than the LT1, but how does the LT1 run the same? It has a fatter power curve meaning the power comes on sooner... Now the vehicles that I have seen dyno sheets on had new complete kits installed... not hybrids... And they were basically stock, so we could measure as close to an accurate baseline a possible... Add cat backs, and other stuff, and the bar goes all over the place... I realize the way I write is pretty literal, but understand, it is a downfall of mine, and believe me, it has raised some argument on my board too... But that's what makes forums fun... Extreme differences in people... Even though I am the way I am, I'm still a Moderator over there, and was nominated by a lot of guys... They realize I can be picked apart, and I have been... But the definitive answer will always evade us as long as we have so many variables in the equasion... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
JWRENCH,,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> But when you start moving the area behind the headlight becomes a naturally high pressure area. To get hot air to the filter once your moving you'd actually have to push some the cold air coming in back around the headlight and out the front of the truck. Does this theory make any sence? And even if a little hot air gets in there and gets in the mix, 1% for 10 degrees would be 2.X horsepower. Would you even feel that? Just my $.02
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, there will be some evacuation of hot air in this instance, and as long as the IAT picks up the difference, you will make more power... But this is one single aspect of the situation, even though you're right on this point, can you look at the whole picture and justify the $300 purchase? If you can, cool... I was just trying to tell everyone on the other board that the oem setup has some pretty strong merits, and it's not a mis-matched POS ... It can flow about 100 to 125 CFM more than what the 5.3 needs and it maintains a ZERO psi or (0"Hg) with all oem components (providing there's a clean filter in place) ... If you can maintain a 0"Hg value within the entire rpm range, in an intake tract, you will not lose HP... A -1"Hg (-.5psig) in an intake tract will net about a 3% HP loss ...
11H ... And peace to all ...
<small>[ March 02, 2003, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: 11H ]</small>
03-02-2003, 11:59 PM
#16
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> For example, a 2001 Z28 (LS1) auto with 2.73 gears will dyno about 295 HP, VS a 1997 Z28 (LT1) auto 2.73 will dyno about 255 HP ... They both run 1/4 mile, and both get traction... They will both run a low 14 or so </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You need to double check that. I have seen many completely stock LS1 automatics that run deep into the 13's...13.1, 13.2 ect.
03-03-2003, 12:25 AM
#17
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
guys, give it up. just let him live with his far superior stock intake. and when yur out there cracking his *** he'll learn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
03-03-2003, 12:51 AM
#18
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I tell you where there IS potential for power though... Replace that corrugated flex boot right after the MAF sensor with a smooth transition, and I bet that's good for a few HP if you keep the oem system... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the only thing in the whole paragraph that made any sence. Other than that, it's pretty much a bunch of hot air (no pun intended).
The only thing the stock air intake is good for is to be quiet, just like the stock muffler. Which also makes more torque and horsepower than aftermarket mufflers to oh about 800 rpm's.
IMHO other than stuffing a sock in the factory intake anything you do to it would be an improvement.
11H: I can't speak for the other boards, but I think everyone here has already seen and felt the benefits of replacing their intake so it's gonna be a pretty hard sell over here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<small>[ March 02, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: JWRENCH ]</small>
The only thing the stock air intake is good for is to be quiet, just like the stock muffler. Which also makes more torque and horsepower than aftermarket mufflers to oh about 800 rpm's.
IMHO other than stuffing a sock in the factory intake anything you do to it would be an improvement.
11H: I can't speak for the other boards, but I think everyone here has already seen and felt the benefits of replacing their intake so it's gonna be a pretty hard sell over here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<small>[ March 02, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: JWRENCH ]</small>
03-03-2003, 01:50 AM
#19
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> You need to double check that. I have seen many completely stock LS1 automatics that run deep into the 13's...13.1, 13.2 ect. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's what a stock auto with 2.73 gears runs here in AZ at Firebird Raceway with street tires... Maybe a 13.9 if they're doing everything perfect...
If you have the optional 3.23 rear with the Auto you can run high to mid 13's pretty easy... The 2.73's are real boggers at the tree...
The low 13's you hear of are STOCK LS1 F-bodies with six speeds getting traction (usually launching hard with drag radials or slicks) ...
11H
If you have the optional 3.23 rear with the Auto you can run high to mid 13's pretty easy... The 2.73's are real boggers at the tree...
The low 13's you hear of are STOCK LS1 F-bodies with six speeds getting traction (usually launching hard with drag radials or slicks) ...
11H
03-03-2003, 02:00 AM
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Re: Interesting post on intakes from the PUTC forum!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> far superior stock intake </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never said it was superior, just hard to improve upon with anything now available as a kit...
I doubt you'll see me playing "crack ***" ... I'm a 33 year old with a 6,000# avalanche who gave up racing years ago... I had a '94,'96, '00 F-body that ran 13's, and beyond...I also have Fbody friends that I hang with... Some of the fastest Fbodies here in AZ as a matter of fact... I've been down that road... There's not much I haven't seen with them... A good friend also owns a perf/dyno shop, and I've also seen a lot of pulls and charts... I'm not rattling this junk off from nowhere... As a matter of fact, I rode in an 11 Second '00 Z28 last week... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
11H
11H
I doubt you'll see me playing "crack ***" ... I'm a 33 year old with a 6,000# avalanche who gave up racing years ago... I had a '94,'96, '00 F-body that ran 13's, and beyond...I also have Fbody friends that I hang with... Some of the fastest Fbodies here in AZ as a matter of fact... I've been down that road... There's not much I haven't seen with them... A good friend also owns a perf/dyno shop, and I've also seen a lot of pulls and charts... I'm not rattling this junk off from nowhere... As a matter of fact, I rode in an 11 Second '00 Z28 last week... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
11H
11H