Looking for dyno sheets and cam card pics....
10-30-2005, 02:27 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Tractionless
At what rpm do you shift w/ that cam? Considering that one or a TR224 114.
Here is the link to his dyno sheet thread w/ the TR220 112... https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...d.php?t=311652
10-30-2005, 10:27 PM
#32
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i don't know... loudazzlowstepside, this cam thread may interest you that took place over @ Tech. I got Bret Bauer to chime in on some of the related topics to this thread.
10-31-2005, 09:18 AM
#33
Since you are concerned about over camming I will throw my previous cam info out for you. Futral custom grind 214/216 .535/.545 113+4. DCR with my milled heads (10.00:1 SCR) was 7.98:1 Running it thru my calculator with stock heads DCR would be 7.66:1
Cam Card and Dyno:
Cam Card and Dyno:
10-31-2005, 11:41 AM
#34
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sportside, thanks for all the digging, that's good readin.. makes me do some thinking.
basically....... everyone has their own opinion, and their own way of doing things. It seems as though a lot of cams get you in the same area, but is there some left on the table? it seems as though maybe there is. I'm liking this guy over at flowtech, i'm writing him.
basically....... everyone has their own opinion, and their own way of doing things. It seems as though a lot of cams get you in the same area, but is there some left on the table? it seems as though maybe there is. I'm liking this guy over at flowtech, i'm writing him.
10-31-2005, 01:35 PM
#35
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Ed's one of few cam grinders I would personally trust.
Ed (EDC), Shaun (93pony), and Chris Straub (CStraub) are some really good cam grinders. I'm starting to like Bret's (SStrokerAce) ideas also. You can find them at many of the LS1 or Ford boards on the net.
They really know their stuff. They don't sell shelf cams however. You have to go thru the process of giving them your information and having them think up some specs. Some people don't have the patients for this. It seems you do however. I'd definetly take the time and have a custom profile designed. The extra week or two it will take for you to receive the camshaft will pay off with more power from your application specific cam grind.
We haven't even gotten into how different ED, Shaun, Chris, and Bret's camshafts are from the rest of the crowds profiles. I can show you some examples if you would like. I've been reading their posts and questioning their ideas for a year or two. It's interesting.
Ed (EDC), Shaun (93pony), and Chris Straub (CStraub) are some really good cam grinders. I'm starting to like Bret's (SStrokerAce) ideas also. You can find them at many of the LS1 or Ford boards on the net.
They really know their stuff. They don't sell shelf cams however. You have to go thru the process of giving them your information and having them think up some specs. Some people don't have the patients for this. It seems you do however. I'd definetly take the time and have a custom profile designed. The extra week or two it will take for you to receive the camshaft will pay off with more power from your application specific cam grind.
We haven't even gotten into how different ED, Shaun, Chris, and Bret's camshafts are from the rest of the crowds profiles. I can show you some examples if you would like. I've been reading their posts and questioning their ideas for a year or two. It's interesting.
10-31-2005, 03:00 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Sport Side
Ed's one of few cam grinders I would personally trust.
Ed (EDC), Shaun (93pony), and Chris Straub (CStraub) are some really good cam grinders. I'm starting to like Bret's (SStrokerAce) ideas also. You can find them at many of the LS1 or Ford boards on the net.
They really know their stuff. They don't sell shelf cams however. You have to go thru the process of giving them your information and having them think up some specs. Some people don't have the patients for this. It seems you do however. I'd definetly take the time and have a custom profile designed. The extra week or two it will take for you to receive the camshaft will pay off with more power from your application specific cam grind.
We haven't even gotten into how different ED, Shaun, Chris, and Bret's camshafts are from the rest of the crowds profiles. I can show you some examples if you would like. I've been reading their posts and questioning their ideas for a year or two. It's interesting.
Ed (EDC), Shaun (93pony), and Chris Straub (CStraub) are some really good cam grinders. I'm starting to like Bret's (SStrokerAce) ideas also. You can find them at many of the LS1 or Ford boards on the net.
They really know their stuff. They don't sell shelf cams however. You have to go thru the process of giving them your information and having them think up some specs. Some people don't have the patients for this. It seems you do however. I'd definetly take the time and have a custom profile designed. The extra week or two it will take for you to receive the camshaft will pay off with more power from your application specific cam grind.
We haven't even gotten into how different ED, Shaun, Chris, and Bret's camshafts are from the rest of the crowds profiles. I can show you some examples if you would like. I've been reading their posts and questioning their ideas for a year or two. It's interesting.
i wrote ed, and he wrote back saying he'd have a ground thought up in a few days. but his email said also, that they don't give out grind info, until after it's been purchased. I don't like that... i'm not gonna buy something i know nothing about. We'll see what his followup email says in a few days.
as for info on their thoughts and differing opinions and such..... bring it.
10-31-2005, 03:33 PM
#37
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If you take a look at most camshaft profiles that are produced by some of the site sponsors (at ls1tech) and those that come straight from Comp and Crane, many follow the same principles.
* 2-6* exhaust bias (@ .05'')
* same lobe profiles
* 4* advance
* 112 LSA or 114 LSA
Obviously, there is going to be competition and which leads to copy-cat cams. Like just stated, look at all of the similar profiles that are being mass produced. When someone like Ed doesn't want to give away specs, it is in fear of things like this. For example, the GX3 of LGM has never introduced the specs of its cam but, it is very similar to the points up above. (split, bias, advance, lsa, lobe profile).
Now, how many variations of setups and uses can a vehicle have? First of all, there are 4 different vehicle types that these same camshafts are being put into. F-bodies, Y-bodies, GTOs, and now Trucks are starting to use some of these grinds (TR220, TR224). All which vary in weight completely. 3000lb Z06s to 3 ton trucks. Not all of these camshafts will work to their full potential when setups vary so much even amongst the same vehicle (m6, a4, heads, exhaust, intake manifold exc.) This is my biggest beef with off the shelf camshafts. Some however feel they work flawlessly. I have no problem with that. Remember this is fully opinionated as this point.
Now, the differences I see between the 4 guys I just mentioned and what a lot (not all) do with their profiles is apparent in the beginning specs of lift, duration @ .05'', lsa, and cam timing.
I noticed you were interested in your IVC being less than 38* @ .05'' so, I'll use VEs in this for comparing camshafts.
First comparo: (bigkids) FMS grind vs. my speced Ed Curtis (FTI) profile.
214/216 .53/.54 113+4
IVO: -2 ATDC
IVC: 36 ABDC
EVO:45 BBDC
EVC:-9 BTDC
Overlap: -11*
Ed Curtis profile
214/216 .6/.58 110+0 (110 ICL)
IVO: -3 ATDC
IVC: 37 ABDC
EVO:38 BBDC
EVC:-2 BTDC
Overlap: -3
Differences are huge despite similar ICL timing and .05'' specs. First, the FTI profile has overlap centered around TDC while the FMS profile is more focused before TDC. FTI's exhaust valve opens much later. Intake valve closing is similar. Other differences are overlap, and ramp rates (given by valve lift). The FTI profile has 6* more overlap when measured @ .05'' valve lift. Lastly, the intake valve is opening and shutting much quicker due in part to the faster ramp used on the intake lobe.
Other profiles done by 2 of the 4 guys I mentioned earlier:
218/218 .578/.56x 109+0 (109ICL) - Street F-body
212/210 .57x/.56x 111+0 (111ICL) - Street F-body
220/225 .59x/.57x 112+0 (112ICL) - GTO grind
214/216 .601/.589 110+0 (110ICL) - Street/Strip truck
229/226 .57x/.56x 112-1 (113ICL) - Strip F-body
224/220 xxx/xxx xxxxx xxxxxx - Street GTO
220/216 .581/.56x 109-1 (110ICL) - Strip/Street truck
See if that gives you any ideas. Compare those to some of the profiles you see from site to site.
* 2-6* exhaust bias (@ .05'')
* same lobe profiles
* 4* advance
* 112 LSA or 114 LSA
Obviously, there is going to be competition and which leads to copy-cat cams. Like just stated, look at all of the similar profiles that are being mass produced. When someone like Ed doesn't want to give away specs, it is in fear of things like this. For example, the GX3 of LGM has never introduced the specs of its cam but, it is very similar to the points up above. (split, bias, advance, lsa, lobe profile).
Now, how many variations of setups and uses can a vehicle have? First of all, there are 4 different vehicle types that these same camshafts are being put into. F-bodies, Y-bodies, GTOs, and now Trucks are starting to use some of these grinds (TR220, TR224). All which vary in weight completely. 3000lb Z06s to 3 ton trucks. Not all of these camshafts will work to their full potential when setups vary so much even amongst the same vehicle (m6, a4, heads, exhaust, intake manifold exc.) This is my biggest beef with off the shelf camshafts. Some however feel they work flawlessly. I have no problem with that. Remember this is fully opinionated as this point.
Now, the differences I see between the 4 guys I just mentioned and what a lot (not all) do with their profiles is apparent in the beginning specs of lift, duration @ .05'', lsa, and cam timing.
I noticed you were interested in your IVC being less than 38* @ .05'' so, I'll use VEs in this for comparing camshafts.
First comparo: (bigkids) FMS grind vs. my speced Ed Curtis (FTI) profile.
214/216 .53/.54 113+4
IVO: -2 ATDC
IVC: 36 ABDC
EVO:45 BBDC
EVC:-9 BTDC
Overlap: -11*
Ed Curtis profile
214/216 .6/.58 110+0 (110 ICL)
IVO: -3 ATDC
IVC: 37 ABDC
EVO:38 BBDC
EVC:-2 BTDC
Overlap: -3
Differences are huge despite similar ICL timing and .05'' specs. First, the FTI profile has overlap centered around TDC while the FMS profile is more focused before TDC. FTI's exhaust valve opens much later. Intake valve closing is similar. Other differences are overlap, and ramp rates (given by valve lift). The FTI profile has 6* more overlap when measured @ .05'' valve lift. Lastly, the intake valve is opening and shutting much quicker due in part to the faster ramp used on the intake lobe.
Other profiles done by 2 of the 4 guys I mentioned earlier:
218/218 .578/.56x 109+0 (109ICL) - Street F-body
212/210 .57x/.56x 111+0 (111ICL) - Street F-body
220/225 .59x/.57x 112+0 (112ICL) - GTO grind
214/216 .601/.589 110+0 (110ICL) - Street/Strip truck
229/226 .57x/.56x 112-1 (113ICL) - Strip F-body
224/220 xxx/xxx xxxxx xxxxxx - Street GTO
220/216 .581/.56x 109-1 (110ICL) - Strip/Street truck
See if that gives you any ideas. Compare those to some of the profiles you see from site to site.
10-31-2005, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LoudAzzLoStepside
those times in your truck, is the the 214/216 110 cam? seems close to stock
