ls1 intake vs truck intake. thoughts
03-08-2006, 09:33 AM
#41
Thanks for graphing those numbers BigKid. Makes it real easy to compare.
Interesting that the 90mm curves don't stand out at all until 5500 rpm. I'm impressed by the 75mm LS6... Does very well in the comparo doesn't it?
I wonder what a 90mm LS2 would do for FI. More airflow is more power, boosted or not. It may not be worth the expense to do a FAST, but for $400-600 it might be a kick *** mod for FI.
Interesting that the 90mm curves don't stand out at all until 5500 rpm. I'm impressed by the 75mm LS6... Does very well in the comparo doesn't it?
I wonder what a 90mm LS2 would do for FI. More airflow is more power, boosted or not. It may not be worth the expense to do a FAST, but for $400-600 it might be a kick *** mod for FI.
03-08-2006, 09:05 PM
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Nice work BigKid! 
About the 50hp loss with the elbow set up, i'd like to see the details on that. Was it 50hp across the board or 50hp down low, peak etc.? I personally don't see how a little elbow could kill that kind of power. That is why i'd like to see the details. FI turbo/procharger drag race setups use the elbows religeously. These are big money teams that i'm sure would be doing something different if it wasn't working best. How the carb intake fared in the multi intake test is exactly how I expected it to do. It looks as if they didn't use a elbow as stated. I just can't see how the elbow would affect it that much if at all. Does anyone else agree with me? 
Originally Posted by Richard@WCCH
I know of a recent test done where an Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake and sheet metal elbow were tested back to back against a FAST 90 intake. The Edelbrock w/elbow setup lost 50 rwhp. I can't say how much of the loss was due to the elbow setup. I'm sure a 4bbl throttle body would have done better as I have seen dyno results of engines with single plane carb intakes make great power. Soon I'll be working with a guy who will spend some quality time on an engine dyno testing a variety of intake setups. I'll post up when more data is available.
Richard
Richard
03-08-2006, 09:59 PM
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The test was done at A&A Corvettes 2 1/2 weeks ago. The 408 with FAST 90 made 520rwhp and 470 peak with the Edelbrock and elbow. I'm hoping the guy that owns the car posts up the results soon. Needless to say a number of us were shocked at the power difference. I can see the elbow setups working on FI applications but air moves a bit differently NA. Perhaps a bowl or plenum right above the carb flange to slow the air to make the turn would work better. Just speculating........... 
I do have concerns about air flowing through the throttle body towards the rear of the vehicle and then in the case of the front 4 cylinders, the air has to make a near 180º turn and flow forward. Under positive pressure the flow loss would be minimal, but NA the losses are larger by a percentage.
I have another customer who races an offroad Pro Truck and runs a GMPP intake and 4bbl throttle body. That engine made 610 flywheel horsepower with a set of our Edelbrock 215 heads, 10.5:1 c/r and a 246º solid roller cam. The 4bbl setup doesn't seem to hurt high rpm power. It works just like a carb setup.
I'm hoping to spend some quality dyno time comparing intakes soon. I'll be sure to post any and all results.
Richard
I do have concerns about air flowing through the throttle body towards the rear of the vehicle and then in the case of the front 4 cylinders, the air has to make a near 180º turn and flow forward. Under positive pressure the flow loss would be minimal, but NA the losses are larger by a percentage. I have another customer who races an offroad Pro Truck and runs a GMPP intake and 4bbl throttle body. That engine made 610 flywheel horsepower with a set of our Edelbrock 215 heads, 10.5:1 c/r and a 246º solid roller cam. The 4bbl setup doesn't seem to hurt high rpm power. It works just like a carb setup.
I'm hoping to spend some quality dyno time comparing intakes soon. I'll be sure to post any and all results.
Richard
03-08-2006, 10:52 PM
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I agree with you totally with the back 4 cyls getting more are the way it would shoot down the back of the elbow. I know Procharger has deflectors inside their 90* hats that go on top of carbs for blow-thru setups. Without the diverters inside to equalize flow, the barrels won't receive the same amount of air and cause all kinds of probs in a carb. The optimum thing would probably be the 4 barrel TB with a 14" round filter on top(NA of course).
I think I may just start out with a truck intake and go from there
610fwhp is pretty serious with just a set of 215's
I think I may just start out with a truck intake and go from there
610fwhp is pretty serious with just a set of 215's
03-09-2006, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BigKID
I think I may try it out. I am not in a big hurry as I want to get everything I can out of the setup as it is now so I will just keep my eyes on the classifieds for a cheap LS2 intake and 90mm NW or TPIS throttle body. I am also going to keep my eyes open for some 97 vette fuel rails unless I decide to go aftermarket.
03-10-2006, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard@WCCH
The test was done at A&A Corvettes 2 1/2 weeks ago. The 408 with FAST 90 made 520rwhp and 470 peak with the Edelbrock and elbow. I'm hoping the guy that owns the car posts up the results soon. Needless to say a number of us were shocked at the power difference. I can see the elbow setups working on FI applications but air moves a bit differently NA. Perhaps a bowl or plenum right above the carb flange to slow the air to make the turn would work better. Just speculating........... I do have concerns about air flowing through the throttle body towards the rear of the vehicle and then in the case of the front 4 cylinders, the air has to make a near 180º turn and flow forward. Under positive pressure the flow loss would be minimal, but NA the losses are larger by a percentage.
I have another customer who races an offroad Pro Truck and runs a GMPP intake and 4bbl throttle body. That engine made 610 flywheel horsepower with a set of our Edelbrock 215 heads, 10.5:1 c/r and a 246º solid roller cam. The 4bbl setup doesn't seem to hurt high rpm power. It works just like a carb setup.
I'm hoping to spend some quality dyno time comparing intakes soon. I'll be sure to post any and all results.
Richard
I do have concerns about air flowing through the throttle body towards the rear of the vehicle and then in the case of the front 4 cylinders, the air has to make a near 180º turn and flow forward. Under positive pressure the flow loss would be minimal, but NA the losses are larger by a percentage. I have another customer who races an offroad Pro Truck and runs a GMPP intake and 4bbl throttle body. That engine made 610 flywheel horsepower with a set of our Edelbrock 215 heads, 10.5:1 c/r and a 246º solid roller cam. The 4bbl setup doesn't seem to hurt high rpm power. It works just like a carb setup.
I'm hoping to spend some quality dyno time comparing intakes soon. I'll be sure to post any and all results.
Richard
air comes in horizontally and runs along the backside of the elbow
creating alot of air for the back but not much for the front
poor cyl fill
poor tuning since we are taking an average of the front and back
and each bank
personally I think optimum would be like richard and MJ said
a 4BBL TB
I would like to see a test comparing the fast 90 and a victor jr 4bbl tb setup
or maybe even an elbow thats designed to pick up the air at 4 points horizontally behind the TB to overcome this
how much is the LS6, fast, etc designs losing out due to the hood being a consideration in making a pancake style intake?
Last edited by Kano; 03-10-2006 at 11:35 PM. Reason: oops
03-11-2006, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mjhoward
I agree with you totally with the back 4 cyls getting more are the way it would shoot down the back of the elbow. I know Procharger has deflectors inside their 90* hats that go on top of carbs for blow-thru setups. Without the diverters inside to equalize flow, the barrels won't receive the same amount of air and cause all kinds of probs in a carb. The optimum thing would probably be the 4 barrel TB with a 14" round filter on top(NA of course).
I think I may just start out with a truck intake and go from there
610fwhp is pretty serious with just a set of 215's
I think I may just start out with a truck intake and go from there
610fwhp is pretty serious with just a set of 215's
Your truck is going to be sick fast with a turboed 6.0l and 6 speed.
The truck intake will do just fine with your setup. Turbos are a different animal than s/c or n/a setups. I've seen some horrendous intakes on blown engines and yet they run phenomenally well.
The 610fwhp Pro Truck engine was a shock to the guy who built it
These Edelbrocks are really a kick *** head. Can't wait to get the 5.3l head program finished.
Richard
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