Methanol Injection
02-24-2005, 03:21 PM
#41
Originally Posted by Weedo
I was assuming that with an electronic boost controller, you would always run the Methanol. Then, if it ran out or you weren't using it, it would switch back to a lower boost setting (say 6psi with no meth or 10psi with meth)?.?.?
I'm curious as to why you don't run it all the time considering it's pretty cheap and adds a bunch of power?
Another question: does the meth get used up much if you're not boosting much?
I'm curious as to why you don't run it all the time considering it's pretty cheap and adds a bunch of power?
Another question: does the meth get used up much if you're not boosting much?
Low boost is enough on the street most of the time
My meth kit is wired to the eboost on switch, so if I'm in high boost, I have meth.
02-24-2005, 03:37 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by F8L Z71
Exactly.....
The GN guys really don't add more timing they add more boost instead. They can effectively go from 18-20psi without meth to 24+psi with meth but the timing stays the same in most cases.
Remember that more timing doesn't always equal more HP. Timing is just like it's name, it is timing the valvetrain events and once you pass the point of effieciency with a particular combo adding additional timing doesn't help.At least that's who I've always known it to be.
The STS kit doesn't have the adjustableness of the AlkyControl kit and it's awesome progressive controller. It's a big pain in the *** to wire up but it's a very cool kit. I lik the fact I can easily dial in more meth at the touch of a dash mounted ****. Makes for a more secure feeling on the street if I notice even a tad bit of detonation.
The GN guys really don't add more timing they add more boost instead. They can effectively go from 18-20psi without meth to 24+psi with meth but the timing stays the same in most cases.
Remember that more timing doesn't always equal more HP. Timing is just like it's name, it is timing the valvetrain events and once you pass the point of effieciency with a particular combo adding additional timing doesn't help.At least that's who I've always known it to be.
The STS kit doesn't have the adjustableness of the AlkyControl kit and it's awesome progressive controller. It's a big pain in the *** to wire up but it's a very cool kit. I lik the fact I can easily dial in more meth at the touch of a dash mounted ****. Makes for a more secure feeling on the street if I notice even a tad bit of detonation.
Mine will be in for install/tune on Monday/Tuesday of next week. I'm planning on going with two settings: 1. With no meth 2. With meth. What psi can I feasibly run without issues? I was planning something like 6psi/9psi, but seeing the 14.5 in your sig, makes me wonder how high I can go?
02-24-2005, 03:55 PM
#43
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It all depends on how you tune it and how much meth you use, your cam selection and static compression ratio.
To run 13psi for daily driving I had a 8.6:1 CR (stock 6.0L heads), the OBX FMIC, 18deg of timing, a 226/220 turbo cam, and a light misting of methanol. I ran this with no problems after a good couple tuning sessions which IMO is CRITICAL on running this much boost, a mail order tune would be scary to that kind of power IMO. The CR is debatable on how much boost you can run since PSI is such a finicky measurement and wont be the same from truck to truck so my 14.5psi could mean much different total CFM than your truck.
When I ran 14+psi it was one night at the track and I had poured about 5ga of C16 to a 1/4tank of 91 octane and turned up the meth a lil since I had no way of measuring KR or detontation while at the track. I saw 14psi in 1st and 2nd gear then 15psi in 3rd gear so I say 14.5psi to round it off.
I wouldn't suggest that kind of HP on a stock trans though. Mine started slipping pretty bad at the track and a few times on the street once we started running 108+ trap speeds.
I am pretty sure my line pressure was adjusted for the boost levels as the thing shifts very solid down low even at part throttle. I can check on that for sure though.
To run 13psi for daily driving I had a 8.6:1 CR (stock 6.0L heads), the OBX FMIC, 18deg of timing, a 226/220 turbo cam, and a light misting of methanol. I ran this with no problems after a good couple tuning sessions which IMO is CRITICAL on running this much boost, a mail order tune would be scary to that kind of power IMO. The CR is debatable on how much boost you can run since PSI is such a finicky measurement and wont be the same from truck to truck so my 14.5psi could mean much different total CFM than your truck.
When I ran 14+psi it was one night at the track and I had poured about 5ga of C16 to a 1/4tank of 91 octane and turned up the meth a lil since I had no way of measuring KR or detontation while at the track. I saw 14psi in 1st and 2nd gear then 15psi in 3rd gear so I say 14.5psi to round it off.
I wouldn't suggest that kind of HP on a stock trans though. Mine started slipping pretty bad at the track and a few times on the street once we started running 108+ trap speeds.
I am pretty sure my line pressure was adjusted for the boost levels as the thing shifts very solid down low even at part throttle. I can check on that for sure though.
02-24-2005, 05:10 PM
#44
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60 + rwhp daily tune
I am running the SMC kit, which I highly rec. The product is awsome and so is the cust. support! I pick up around 60 + rwhp with the addition on this kit. I went from 348rwhp at 8 degs. to 426rwhp at 18deg falling off to 16degs at the shift point. This is with crappy Az. gas and heat! 8 deg of time is all I could run before we would start seeing kr. I now still see 0 kr at 18 deg. it was almost like adding another supercharger! I also run straight denatured alky with lubing additive.
02-24-2005, 07:28 PM
#46
Originally Posted by F8L Z71
Exactly.....
The GN guys really don't add more timing they add more boost instead. They can effectively go from 18-20psi without meth to 24+psi with meth but the timing stays the same in most cases.
Remember that more timing doesn't always equal more HP. Timing is just like it's name, it is timing the valvetrain events and once you pass the point of effieciency with a particular combo adding additional timing doesn't help.At least that's who I've always known it to be.
The GN guys really don't add more timing they add more boost instead. They can effectively go from 18-20psi without meth to 24+psi with meth but the timing stays the same in most cases.
Remember that more timing doesn't always equal more HP. Timing is just like it's name, it is timing the valvetrain events and once you pass the point of effieciency with a particular combo adding additional timing doesn't help.At least that's who I've always known it to be.
I was told that adding meth to a forced induction set-up is used to add timing to make more power. Boost is a measurement of pressure within the engine after combustion. If you hold all variables constant, adding more boost does not always yield higher numbers, even with the use of meth injection because you are not fundamentally making the engine breathe any better.
Low octane pump gas becomes very unstable as you run higher boost, especially if you have high IAT's like me. I'm actually switching from a 3.0 to a 3.25 pulley to try to make the power with timing rather than boost.
The radix will easily put out 10-11 pounds of boost with a 3.0 pulley on a 5.3, but at that point, the engine is becoming innefficient as the supercharger works harder to put that much boost into an engine that can't get it in and out fast enough. The tuner was seeing the 43lb injectors start to max out and excessive heat as a result of the flow limits of the engine. (ie heads, cats, and exhaust)
How does this relate to the use of meth injection? Well, if what I have learned is right, using meth to cool IAT's may allow more timing which may yield more power than running more boost. More boost does not always make more power. i actually lost 70 rwhp going from a 3.6 to 3.0 pulley because the amount of timing the tuner has to pull to stop detonation. Not only that, the restriction with the factory 5.3 heads and cats (I have headers and magnoflow exhaust) generated more heat also causing detonation.
Every set-up is different, but most of the fundamentals still should apply. I hope I didn't offend anybody. I would actually like someone to tell me that I dont know what Im talking about so i could go slap on that 3.0 pulley and run 10+ pounds of boost.
02-24-2005, 07:34 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by j's01silverado
Im a bit confused, somebody please clarify for me. This is what I have gathered after talking to several people.
I was told that adding meth to a forced induction set-up is used to add timing to make more power. Boost is a measurement of pressure within the engine after combustion. If you hold all variables constant, adding more boost does not always yield higher numbers, even with the use of meth injection because you are not fundamentally making the engine breathe any better.
Low octane pump gas becomes very unstable as you run higher boost, especially if you have high IAT's like me. I'm actually switching from a 3.0 to a 3.25 pulley to try to make the power with timing rather than boost.
The radix will easily put out 10-11 pounds of boost with a 3.0 pulley on a 5.3, but at that point, the engine is becoming innefficient as the supercharger works harder to put that much boost into an engine that can't get it in and out fast enough. The tuner was seeing the 43lb injectors start to max out and excessive heat as a result of the flow limits of the engine. (ie heads, cats, and exhaust)
How does this relate to the use of meth injection? Well, if what I have learned is right, using meth to cool IAT's may allow more timing which may yield more power than running more boost. More boost does not always make more power. i actually lost 70 rwhp going from a 3.6 to 3.0 pulley because the amount of timing the tuner has to pull to stop detonation. Not only that, the restriction with the factory 5.3 heads and cats (I have headers and magnoflow exhaust) generated more heat also causing detonation.
Every set-up is different, but most of the fundamentals still should apply. I hope I didn't offend anybody. I would actually like someone to tell me that I dont know what Im talking about so i could go slap on that 3.0 pulley and run 10+ pounds of boost.
I was told that adding meth to a forced induction set-up is used to add timing to make more power. Boost is a measurement of pressure within the engine after combustion. If you hold all variables constant, adding more boost does not always yield higher numbers, even with the use of meth injection because you are not fundamentally making the engine breathe any better.
Low octane pump gas becomes very unstable as you run higher boost, especially if you have high IAT's like me. I'm actually switching from a 3.0 to a 3.25 pulley to try to make the power with timing rather than boost.
The radix will easily put out 10-11 pounds of boost with a 3.0 pulley on a 5.3, but at that point, the engine is becoming innefficient as the supercharger works harder to put that much boost into an engine that can't get it in and out fast enough. The tuner was seeing the 43lb injectors start to max out and excessive heat as a result of the flow limits of the engine. (ie heads, cats, and exhaust)
How does this relate to the use of meth injection? Well, if what I have learned is right, using meth to cool IAT's may allow more timing which may yield more power than running more boost. More boost does not always make more power. i actually lost 70 rwhp going from a 3.6 to 3.0 pulley because the amount of timing the tuner has to pull to stop detonation. Not only that, the restriction with the factory 5.3 heads and cats (I have headers and magnoflow exhaust) generated more heat also causing detonation.
Every set-up is different, but most of the fundamentals still should apply. I hope I didn't offend anybody. I would actually like someone to tell me that I dont know what Im talking about so i could go slap on that 3.0 pulley and run 10+ pounds of boost.
02-24-2005, 08:52 PM
#48
wow, great thread.
if you compresor has the ability to efficently flow more air then more boost will almost certainly mean more power but not if you are at the limit of your fuel. in my $.02 timing is much scarier to play with, i think too much timing can cause damage quickly. more boost seems safer.
someone mentioned the a/f reading from a wideband. i have done some research and without going into the details that i didn't really understand your wideband still works. you still shoot for the same a/f ratio. i shoot for 11.8 and will continue to shoot for that once useing meth. the actualy a/f ratio will be much lower than that but the number on the gauge is what is important.
from what i have read water does help but isn't nearly as effective as meth. you shoot much less water and have to shoot it thru a smaller nozzle to get better atomazation.
i have all the parts for the alky control kit, went with a 4 gallon cell and am puting that in the box. i want to spray a **** load of meth if it seems to like it.
julio from alky control reports ambiant IAT's at the END of the 1/4 mile. he is running something like 24psi. imiagine 70deg ait's on a 70deg day at 24psi, woohoo.
if you compresor has the ability to efficently flow more air then more boost will almost certainly mean more power but not if you are at the limit of your fuel. in my $.02 timing is much scarier to play with, i think too much timing can cause damage quickly. more boost seems safer.
someone mentioned the a/f reading from a wideband. i have done some research and without going into the details that i didn't really understand your wideband still works. you still shoot for the same a/f ratio. i shoot for 11.8 and will continue to shoot for that once useing meth. the actualy a/f ratio will be much lower than that but the number on the gauge is what is important.
from what i have read water does help but isn't nearly as effective as meth. you shoot much less water and have to shoot it thru a smaller nozzle to get better atomazation.
i have all the parts for the alky control kit, went with a 4 gallon cell and am puting that in the box. i want to spray a **** load of meth if it seems to like it.
julio from alky control reports ambiant IAT's at the END of the 1/4 mile. he is running something like 24psi. imiagine 70deg ait's on a 70deg day at 24psi, woohoo.
02-24-2005, 09:14 PM
#50
Originally Posted by mzoomora
70 degree IAT's on a 70 degree day at 24 psi- Im in! That is pretty impressive. I am going forced induction and intercooled, but plan on keeping the boost low (9psi on a ATI), you think the meth would help much without the increased psi?
i am told injecting meth is the only thing(vs water or other alcohols) that will add hp without changing any settings. something to do with the crazy cooling and the oxygen in the fuel. someone posted on some thread about geting 20hp with just the meth and no more boost or timing. i think the real benifit is from being able to run more timing.
i probably wont be really testing it on my truck for awhile. i was going to get it put on right away but i have all new hot parts comming and i think they need to be installed and the tune dialed in first. then add the meth.