slowprocess

iTrader: (9)

I have no idea about transmissions(i ain't gonna lie). I need a list of what I need to get my tranny built better before I get my shift kit, converter, and servos put in. I have seen post about the alto red 3-4 clutch, 6 count 3-4 clutch set, "the beast reaction shell", and the release spring kit. Someone please enlighten me on what all I need in order to make it work out. My tranny isn't dead yet, but at 110,000 miles, I'm afraid the converter and shift kit might be too much for it to handle. Just take a little time and hook me up with a list of goodies I should use. Thanks a million.

Chingon

iTrader: (1)

Here is something I saved from the pacific-audio.com board (you might ask there too for other opinions):

I own a transmission shop and we build quite a few 4L60E's for performance. We have experimented with ALL kinds of stuff and we've seen what burns up and what doesn't. We've built a bunch of transmissions for Camaro's and Firebirds that are running in the 10's and a ton that are running in the 11's. Here's what we've come up with, and I'll start at the front of the transmission and work my way back.

Converter: We've had our best luck with the Vigilante's. I have one in my own truck and love it.

Pump: use the 13 vane pump. However, it is a misconception that the 13 vanes have a higher pump volume than the 10 vane. The pump volume is EXACTLY the same. The vanes were changed due to harmonics causing rotors to break up. The only thing that can change pump volume is the HEIGHT of the vanes/rotor. Also, you want to get the unbreakable pump rings from TransGo. Much heavier duty. If you use a Teflon pump bushing, you want to apply LOCKTITE around it so that it cannot move forward. This is a common leakage problemn with the 4L60E. ALWAYS replace the rear stator bushing since it is the sealing point for lubrication. As a matter of fact, on a performance build, you should replace ALL bushings. It's cheap and keeps your parts nice and centered. You also want to make sure that the splines on the stator are in good shape. REPLACE the boost valve with a Sonnax valve or TransGo. It's almost always worn out.

Reverse drum: Not much to do there. However, you must put a straight edge across the band surface and make sure it's straight. These tend to get "bowed." The middle will be really low and the two outsides really high. If this is your case, replace the reverse drum. A quick glance of the band will show you where it burned on the edges and the middle is still new. This is a sign of diminished holding capacity of the band.

Band: Do not use Kevlar. I know I know... You've read a ton of stuff about the virtues of Kevlar. Kevlar is a harder material and doesn't have the holding capacity of other materials. If you are making tons of power, you'll give up a lot on the 1-2 shift. If you're short on power, you'll never notice. I've burned up more Kevlar bands than I care to remember. We use a performance band made by ALTO. The band is a good bit wider and provides much more holding capacity than the Kevlar band. Shifts are much crisper and the durabitlity is awesome. We've got a guy that comes in for a rebuild every year whether he needs it or not. The band always looks brand new like we've just pulled it out of the box!!

Next is the input drum. Here is the weak point in this transmission. The 3-4 clutches love to burn up. Here's the trick. You need to buy a 3-4 clutch set called the Raybestos Max Pac. Forget Kevlar and forget the Raybestos blue plates. I have YET to see a Max Pac burn up. It is an 8 clutch set instead of six. Some companies sell a 9 clutch set. Yes, you get more clutches but this is because the reduce the thickness of the steel plates. This causes them not to be able to dissipate heat and burn. Not good. Also, the MaxPac will have you drill a .035 hole at the back of the drum. This hole is to prevent centifugal apply of the clutches. Here's what happens, when you spin up your motor past 5000 RPMS, the fluid that is behind the 3-4 piston will move out to the walls because of centrifugal force. The fluid will crawl up the wall and put pressure on the back of the piston causing it to drag the clutches while in 1st gear. This causing premature wear and burning. The bleed hole is there to exhaust the fluid and prevent this from happenning. Trust me, it works. Also, on the 3-4 clutches. Forget what the book says. Clutch clearance should be kept to a minimum. I have found that .010" is best for this clutch set. This allows for faster 2-3 shifts and no burnt clutches.

Continuing with the input drum. You can get a hardenned input shaft, but so far, I really haven't found it to be necessary. I haven't seen any broken input shafts, but I have seen them strip out the alluminum shell. ART CARR racing sells a little shell that you can slip in there and help keep it from stripping.
Forward clutches. Lots of people spend a lot of money buying the blue plate clutches for the forward set. NOT necessary. Here's why. The forward clutches ONLY apply when you shift from neutral to drive. Then they STAY on throughout the entire time you are driving forward. These clutches do NOT come on and off while you are driving so they experience minimal wear. You have to focus the attention on the clutches that come on while at high torque demand times. Those clutches get abused. I just use stock clucthes for the forward and over run sections and I choose the Borg Warner brand.
I keep the original fron planet and ring gear. No problems there.

The shell... Always replace the shell. The absolute best shell I've seen is the "BEAST" from SPX. They are unbreakable. This is a very weak point in the transmission and must be addressed, especially in trucks or in Camaro's running on slicks. Be careful you don't get one of the early production shells as they had clearance problems. That problem was later corrected. We install about 3 of these shells a week and never had a comeback because of them.
5 Pinion planets are great. You can use the original GM from the 4L65E or you can use some aftermarket ones. Either way, it helps to spread the load among more pinions. Besides, you can't replace the torrington bearing that's inside, so you might as well replace the planet.

Low/reverse clutches. Stock. Keep a loose clearane on these.

Valve bodies. I use the TransGo shift kit exclusively. On Camaro's I go all out. On trucks I stay a little on the conservative side or they'll bang. If you're using the billet super servo's (which I HIGHLY recommend) you'll want to keep your feed orficies small or it will bang too hard. If you keep the orifices small, it will shift normal at light throttle and quick and firm at high throttle. The holding capacity of the super servo's is awesome and you'll never burn a band again.

Back to valve body. As for the TCC problem. USE THE SONNAX FIX!!! We fix TONS of these. Nothing cures the problem better than the Sonnax valve. If you want to do this, you'll have to REAM the valve body for it to fit. The reamer tool will cost $100 and the valve about $40. It's almost not worth it to buy the tool to just do ONE. If you want to send me the valve body, I will ream it for free to help you out. If you don't want to use the Sonnax fix, and want a firmer TCC, BLOCK the TCC regulator valve from moving. You can install the TransGo valve back there, but then block it by installing an inner pump slide spring. I will hold the valve from moving and you no longer have a PWM system. It will become an ON/OFF system which will shift firm.
In the case, BLOCK the 4th accumulator. Don't install the springs or the piston. You need to take a check ball and pound it into the feed hole at the bottom of the accumlator bore. 4th Gear is weak and it needs all the help it can get. Don't worry, it will not shift brutally into 4th. We do this on EVERY overhaul for 4L60E and for 700's. Even on Grandma's car. This way, you'll be able to feel 4th gear come on.
Of course, I already mentioned, the Super servo's are great. Use them from the Superior company.

Lastly, install the most absolute, huge-est (is that a word?), collosal, gargantuan, beast of a cooler you can get your hands on. Do not use a Hayden tube type. You need one that is set up like a car's radiator. "Long Corporation" makes the BEST transmission coolers on the market. Keep the trans cool and you'll be surprised how long she lasts.
Always replace all the electronics inside. Especially the variable force motor solenoid. (Pressure control)
Oh yeah, and DON'T firm up your shifts with the Hypertech.

Hope this helps some.
If you need more help with it, e-mail me or call my shop. I'll answer all the questions you might have.
Fernando
Transmission Physicians
Tampa, FL
(813)835-8728
ASE Certified Master Tech.

Fun Guy

Here is a link from SilveradoSS.com where a guy there (BenKey) just did a rebuild on his 4L65E. There is a link to the place where he got all the parts in his first post.

Good luck, be sure to post the results of your rebuild - what you did, how it went, etc.

Ben's Tranny Build

Hit Man X

Well the list goes on and on and on depending on your funds and power you are realistically trying to achieve...

Post up your goals then I shall try to assist further and not type a novel.

BenKey

iTrader: (1)

By time you price this thing out with parts, you'll be pretty close to a FLP level IV tranny. You would probably be better off getting one ready to go.

Because, I would say you need a complete clutch pack (all of them), Raybestos pro-series band, 29 element sprag, beast reaction shell, torque drive system, front and back 5-pinion planets, high output pump slide spring and whatever else. All depends on how strong you want it.

SimpleManLance

iTrader: (9)

hey chingon, why isn't it good to firm up the shift with a hypertech? i have been doing it for about 15,000 miles. i was thinking about getting the super servo but i heard it gives to much pressure and it puts hole in your bands or something. cant remember who i heard that from. on and slow process thanks again i finally got actavated on this site. this site provides way more info then AF.

Hit Man X

HPP3 just raises line pressure off that Pressure Solenoid...not the best way for firm shifts. I have the super servo as does Chingy and it's a much better piece than the stock or the Vette one. Mine's been in for a LONG time and my trans is running great...

SimpleManLance

iTrader: (9)

i think i will order one do you know of a place that sells for cheap i will probably buy from KDS performance. do you know if the predator does it the same way as hypertech?

zippy

on the hypertech thing, it's ok if your trans doesn't have a shift kit in it to use the pressure bump, but don't use it if you have a shift kit. some try to use that in place of a shift kit and will say it's the same, but, it by far isn't. a complete shift kit's main idea is to increase volume along with pressure of fluid being moved through the valve body and to the internals.

on the trans parts, personally i like the blue's over the max pack although they are also a great product. if you do chose the blue plates, do not use kolene or lindered type coated steels unless racing only is your idea or you plan to tear it down every year as they will wear them down very fast. another new solution raybestos has come up with are the new z-pack which i have yet to try, but are supposed to be the best all around performance/daily driver clutch/steel set out there. on the 2-4 band, i've never had a failure with the kevlar band and have had a few with stock or performance bands. i preferr the pro series raybestos kevlar band over the wide band also since the wide band doesn't always wear evenly which has been the only main problem i've had with them although they do work nice.

for hard parts, the beast or the gm 24221190 revised sun shell kit has worked in most cases, then again the sun shell is pretty much always going to be a concern. with the revised gm sun shell we almost never have a failure and if we do it's the teeth stripping off the sun shell. the 5 pinion planetary is certainly stronger although i've only seen a few ever even have a failure of the 4 pinion set. with the exception of some oddities, the only other main concern is the forward clutch sprag, i've ran into more than a couple of these broken.

just a couple things off the top of my head to add to the post.

BenKey

iTrader: (1)

A couple? I've never seen you type that much.