F8L Z71

Ok first let me say that I agree with you 100% that in high boost situations the STS kit will definately require either an intercooler or Alky or both depending on the situation. Also for low boost systems that are may see boost for long periods of time like major towing or uphill stuff then you will probably tax the cooling capabilities of the intake pipe so an intercooler would be highly benificial.

I think where we are getting a lil confused with eachother is that I am talking about high boost systems with Alky injection and you are agrueing high boost STS vs high boost standard with an intercooler. I agree 100% that you would need a better cooling medium like intercooling or Alky if you want to run any real amounts of boost.

Ok, now back to agruing points (the part were other people might learn something important)

Exhaust gasses contain the same amount of air molecules in them no matter wether they are hot and fast moving or cooler and slow moving, what changes is the volume. Velocity isn't an issue in this case because what is creating the velocity is the turbine housing. If you run a standard system you have to have a larger A/R or else you run the risk of creating a restriction in the system. In a system like a diesel or methanol race car you run a smaller A/R which creates more of a restriction and thus creates the extra velocity you might be missing by having the turbo so far back. So I am not refering to lag in this way.

The buick guys are running 20psi or so on pump gas, with Alky they are running 25+ on pump gas so I defianately agree that both cooling systems on a high boost car would be ideal. The idea is where do you draw the line at the point where you need one over the other or when you need both?

Like I stated above I agree with you in that the STS kit should not be used alone for more than maybe 6-7psi unless you are either lowering compression or running a cooling agent of some sort.

See, and who said people can't debate point in a civlized manner on an internet forum?

treyZ28

how can velocity not matter? [stiffler]Think about it [/stiffler]



edit: **** you mother bitch, I'll kill you, you dont know what your talking about my boys will own your *** like a red headed ****, my keyboard can beat up your keyboard"

F8L Z71

Because you are saying that the turbo requires velocity created by hot exhaust gasses being placed very close to the turbo. I am saying that it is a moot point in this instance because you are trying to cram air through a very small opening which creates backpressure so therefore you are controlling that velocity by the A/R choice. The A/R is going to dictate how much velocity you read is it not?


*edit*

*Unzips zipper and flops huge shlong on table* Mine is bigger than yours so therefore anything I say is right and you will always be wrong. Hahaha

treyZ28

Think of this. Fuel injectors. Fuel pressure at 8psi vs fuel pressure at 48 psi (of if you want to make another diesel comparison, 23,000psi)

F8L Z71

Bad comparison

Injectors are the other side of whatever is creating the pressure thus they are the reciepent of that the pressure. A turbo is the one dictating the pressure. In this way it is both the cause and the recipent. So in effect the turbo is like an injector and fuel pressure regulator combo. It can conrtol the velocity thus controlling how much is can flow in a given amount of time. LOL

treyZ28

no, the exhuast gas will lose velocity and hence spool up the turbo slower or later depending on the turbo. the turbo does not dictate the velocity of the exhuast gasses.

What is going to spool it up faster, fast air or slow air? The exhuast at the turbo will be moving much slower if placed further away

F8L Z71

No it wont.

If you slow down the exhaust gas and reduce it's volume you use a smaller A/R to take advantage of that and by creating a smaller opening for the gas to pass through it acts like a turbo with a higher A/R using hotter more volumous air.

You understand how A/R works right?

My reasoning of the turbo dictating the exhaust velocity is flawed by my point is the same. I just didn't demonstrate it in a viable way. I thought it would be easier to understand.

The point I am trying to make is that it doens't matter if the turbo is in hot high velocity exhaust flow or not if the turbine is sized properly. Within reason of course. You are still seeing extremely hot air no matter where you put it. Even your exhaust tips can't be touched without burning you so it's not like were going form 1000deg to ambient. It's take some hot gasses and serious compression to get a rear mount turbo to 1400+degs

PappyDan

iTrader: (4)

You dont seem to have a firm grasp on the pressure vs. resistance thing. A longer pipe/tube will create more resistance than a short one of equal cross sectional area/shape. Resistance = loss in pressure/velocity. You are confusing "lag" and "pressure differential."

No, it's volume of cubic inch.
Longer, larger pipe = more volume of cubic inch to fill at a set psi takes more time to fill with air to create pressure for boost.
problem, engine sucks air.
At the same time your turbo try's to fill the volume of cubic inch with air pressure to create boost your engine is sucking it out, cause delay, until the turbo can generate enough psi to counter the vacuum the engine creates to make forced induction.
Porting the heads, bigger intake creates more cubic to fill with pressure.
all this damn long hair hippy **** makes my head hurt.

Some systems I have seen have as much volume as a 5 gallon air tank to fill with pressure.