I AM POSTING THIS IN FAIRNESS TO ALL INVOLVED WITH THE PREVIOUS THREAD MIKE(TIGERFAN187) HAD STARTED. I RECIEVED A PM FROM NELSON YESTERDAY THAT INDICATED THAT HE WAS A BIT AGGRIVATED WITH MY COMMENTS ABOUT THE TUNE. I WAS JUST STATING FACTS AS I AM ABOUT TO DO NOW.

last night after work I decided to pickup mike(tigerfan187) & make a trip out to B&M racing to drool over the new LS1 & test the nelson tune on the dyno.

To be scientific both of our vehicles are identical years, makes, displacements, mods, with the exception of the exhaust, I have no cats, true duals, & headers.

I drove around for about 40 minutes with the nelson tune in & the tech2 hooked up logging data. At idle the truck ran a perfect 0 on fuel trim values. I tend to keep mine around -2%.

at very light throttle input with no load the fuel trims stayed about + 2-4%, keep in mind that when I cut the cats I instantly ran lean 4-5%, so I can only speculate that with this tune in mikes truck the fuel would have been perfect.

above part throttle driving, & driving the engine under heavy loads is where the major difference was. I consistantly recorded fuel trims values between
+ 12-19% indicating a lean condition, this occured without signs of detonation.

Now it was time to strap it to the dyno. My objectives here were to compare my wideband dynotuning (which I was informed last night I have logged over 20 of them) & the nelson tune. The wideband was not available last night so the only option I had was to read the O2's.

Nelsons tune was ran first with the only modification being that I brought the timing up from 25 to 30 due to the fact that I was not spraying. The nelson tune made a total of 5 more horsepower than mine. torque was identical. the Nelso tune ran about 650mv on the pulls, I ran around 1000mv. despite the huge variation in our tables & o2 sensor readings I was suprised that there was only 5 hp difference between the two. Of course it has become apparent here recently since spraying the 220 shot over & over again that my own 4.8 is now getting tired. I have seen a few dimples in the top of my pistons & have about a 20psi variance between all 8 cylinders. That might explain for the lack of response.

As for the shifting problems I heard from Ed Wright that the hp tuners tire, gear, & speedo table was scaled incorrectly. That could explain the difference in what edit shows wot shifts in first @ 30mph & nelson saying they were @ 38mph.

So just to clear thing up, the nelson tune was off, but not so off that I think it could have caused the catostrophic failure that occured. For the most part it was right on the fuel data until heavy throttle application was applied. Of course this could have been fixed easily with an updated tune. It is my opinion that whatever occured was possibly there all along, the lean condition could have been the straw that broke the camels back. But in our era of computered controlled engine management systems there are so many things that could occur once we start doing the things we do.

As for Nelson I was a bit dissipointed in the manner in which he came at me, both on the thread & when he pm me. I thought it was totally unprofessional.

however in retrospect I realize that he provides for his faimily in large part based upon his reputation, & I probably defaced his character in his eyes.
I am sure he is a man just like the rest of us & acted in a way that we all would.

To nelson, the tune from a fueling standpoint would have been perfect if there was a bit more fuel added above 2800rpms. Maybe this info might help you in the future. I am in no way a professional tuner but just offering some advice being that the truck was not there for you to see.

if anyone else has any questions feel free to shoot away

 

well i am goint to nelson on the 11'th and you say that you think he could have fixed it had he had the truck there because my truck will be there would there be anything to request i have talked to him and he is great and seems to know his stuff but any suggestions WILL be taken seriously because i dont know and i am not going to trust all my time to one person no matter how cool he is (props to allen for rockin total **** BTW) if i dont have to 20 k is an expensive mistake

 

650 at WOT is still a little lean. On the flip side 1000 is a bit rich too, but not near as lean as 650 is. I would prefer mine to start at around 920 and end up about 890 at the end of the run.

sfj, hands on tunes are the way to go, no matter who;s doing it. Personally, I would never get a mail order tune. It's just not for me.

 

I know he could have fixed it if he had it at his shop with a wideband. I am in no way a professional tuner & I ended up nailing mine down. It took me forever though. I saw his very first tune for mike & it was PERFECT, everything was dead on. So I was excited for him to get the new one.

The only suggestions I would make is that I noticed he goes conservitive on the spark advance. I am sure he is doing this to cover his tail, I personally have had more power on the dyno with my cam with 34 degrees of total timing, but I have to constantly run super, the few occasions I buy the race stuff the truck feels completely different

 

I agree with you 100%, if you have the time, & sources to do your own you will always come out on top. But the learning curve can be frustrating. I would not have the slightest idea where to start on another vehicle than the ones I have tuned, it almost seems like it would impossible unless you had dyno with similar speced vehicle

 

well unles it is specified to run 34 timing it prolly wont happen due to the majority loosing power there. i thought that that tune was set up for nos wasnt it? a 225 shot?

 

NO IT WAS SET UP FOR THE 100 SHOT, I HAVE A 225 SHOT. BEFORE HE GOT THE UPDATED TUNE YOU HAD 30 DEGREES TOTAL WITH NO DETONATION. I HAD TRIED 34 LAST TIME I WAS ON THE DYNO & ACTUALLY GAINED ABOUT 7 HORSE FROM 30, THE POWER CURVE ON THE DYNO WAS ALOT SMOOTHER AS WELL.

tHE FIRST TIME I SPRAYED THE 220 SHOT I MELTED THE PLUGS, 26 WORKS GOOD. BUT 34 IS LETTING IT HANG OUT THERE, THAT WAS WITH THE 160 STAT WICH SEEMED TO DECREASE DETONATION DRAMTICALY

 

... well I'm not suprised that the engine blew

After reading your last post, I rather expected it to happen sooner or later. I am not a tuner myself, but I know that if your spraying that much, you are looking for trouble if the tune is not perfect. 488 is very impressive from a 4.8 on stock internals, but your getting most of that from spray, and the spray is what kicked your motor's ***, not the lack of tuning IMO.

If i were you, I'd stick to strictly dyno and street driven tunes for the next motor. And go easy on those bottles.

 

CrazyCutters motor didnt blow. He does his own tuning. He, however, did run that crazy 220 shot. He stated his motor is feeling a bit worn. He is posting additional info related to the post tigerfan187 made about his blown motor. Tigerfan187 had Nelson tune for him, but at no time blamed Nelson for the mishap. He is simply posting some finding about the tune Nelson did for Tigerfan187. Hope I cleared some of it up.

 

alright. That cleared it up for me.