What can the 5.3 block handle.
04-19-2003, 11:32 AM
#1
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What can the 5.3 block handle.
What can this stock internal motor handle as for bolt on power. My Tundra has a 7lb charger and is making about 385hp with all the other goodies. I can custom tune that for more power, but Toyota says that the tranny can barely handle that, and they don't make the parts for it like the GM has. I have built a 88 mustang 302 that made 450 at the crank with supercharging, and I went 60,000 miles on the block with stock internals, and no problems. I am wondering what this 5.3 can do? I have stated before that I wanted approximately between 475 to 500 hp and about equal torque. Can I do this on the stock internals?
If not what do I have to do? I already have a Predator tranny planned, and the rear end work and drive axle assembly lined up. Would I just have to O-ring the heads and block like on my mustang. But then again I ran a 11lb system on my mustang, and the Radix charger I want only uses 7lbs of boost. I figure with the charger, headers, custom exhaust, and intake I should be at, or close enough to the power I want.
Does anyone have a setup like this? Any help will be appreciated! <img border="0" alt="[driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />
If not what do I have to do? I already have a Predator tranny planned, and the rear end work and drive axle assembly lined up. Would I just have to O-ring the heads and block like on my mustang. But then again I ran a 11lb system on my mustang, and the Radix charger I want only uses 7lbs of boost. I figure with the charger, headers, custom exhaust, and intake I should be at, or close enough to the power I want.
Does anyone have a setup like this? Any help will be appreciated! <img border="0" alt="[driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />
04-19-2003, 01:00 PM
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Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
Hi Hodgeee,My Tahoe turned a 13.285@101.38mph it weighs about a 1000lbs more than your truck and I drive it everyday.See my post Tahoe goes Terminator for details.
04-19-2003, 01:09 PM
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Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
Talking at the motor Gross horsepower. Yes I am figuring on spending actually more than $10,000 for all mods, thats about how much I spent on my Tundra. So I will loose 25% power with the tranny swap, wow that is a lot of power loss. I wonder then if that horsepower figure will then meet my desire for performance, probably!
Now if I can do it all with heads, cam, and exhaust, I do not know where to look to get these parts. No one lists parts specifically for these 5.3L motors. I know with the supercharger route, that under normal driving conditions, the motor runs like it is stock, so no extra wear under most driving conditions. I now have 31000 miles on my supercharged toyota motor, and it runs just as fine as the day I installed it. The diff I was figuring on getting a Eaton, then using ARP studs instead of the main cap bolts, then using a T/A Performance Girdle. I will never run drags on this vehicle since I am intending it for street use only, and I blew two rear ends on my Mustang running drags.
Where can I find, or get the parts for the motor build? Is the 5.7 motor bottom end the same as this, or do those heads and cams work with our 5.3L setup?
Well, if with heads, cam, and exhaust you are making 375hp at the rear wheels, then that bottom end is taking the same abuse as it would with a supercharger(depends on if its a roots or centrifugal type of charger, roots creates more boost at more of the rpm band). Both equate to a stronger explosion in the cylinder, and greater thrusting force on the piston and crank to the tranny. Just with the motor build, it is doing it through volumetric efficiency, and with the charger it is doing it by forced inefficiency(induction).
So for guys that have the built motors, how is there dependability been on the motor? If they are running 30,000 miles or more on the motor without problems, then I know that my intended setup will work fine. I have actually built a couple of tuned vehicles through out the years, and know that you have to build the vehicle as a whole, and I have every intention to do so. Sorry to say it but I used to be all Ford. There ain't much I can't tell you about a Ford block or motor, since that was my trade. I used to be a Ford mechanic, but I do not know much about GM vehicles, so I don't know what these things can handle. If they are overbuilt, realy stout, or just enough to handle the stock power levels.
Thanks again for your help!
<small>[ April 19, 2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: hodgeee ]</small>
Now if I can do it all with heads, cam, and exhaust, I do not know where to look to get these parts. No one lists parts specifically for these 5.3L motors. I know with the supercharger route, that under normal driving conditions, the motor runs like it is stock, so no extra wear under most driving conditions. I now have 31000 miles on my supercharged toyota motor, and it runs just as fine as the day I installed it. The diff I was figuring on getting a Eaton, then using ARP studs instead of the main cap bolts, then using a T/A Performance Girdle. I will never run drags on this vehicle since I am intending it for street use only, and I blew two rear ends on my Mustang running drags.
Where can I find, or get the parts for the motor build? Is the 5.7 motor bottom end the same as this, or do those heads and cams work with our 5.3L setup?
Well, if with heads, cam, and exhaust you are making 375hp at the rear wheels, then that bottom end is taking the same abuse as it would with a supercharger(depends on if its a roots or centrifugal type of charger, roots creates more boost at more of the rpm band). Both equate to a stronger explosion in the cylinder, and greater thrusting force on the piston and crank to the tranny. Just with the motor build, it is doing it through volumetric efficiency, and with the charger it is doing it by forced inefficiency(induction).
So for guys that have the built motors, how is there dependability been on the motor? If they are running 30,000 miles or more on the motor without problems, then I know that my intended setup will work fine. I have actually built a couple of tuned vehicles through out the years, and know that you have to build the vehicle as a whole, and I have every intention to do so. Sorry to say it but I used to be all Ford. There ain't much I can't tell you about a Ford block or motor, since that was my trade. I used to be a Ford mechanic, but I do not know much about GM vehicles, so I don't know what these things can handle. If they are overbuilt, realy stout, or just enough to handle the stock power levels.
Thanks again for your help!
<small>[ April 19, 2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: hodgeee ]</small>
04-19-2003, 01:28 PM
#4
Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
not sure what a predator tranny is but if that is just a built 4l60e you won't loose much if any hp swaping that for the stock 4l60e tranny.
i am running as much as 8psi and a 75shot on a stock 6.0 longblock, i would say they are overbuilt. it kind of depends on how often you plan on hammering it as to how long it will last, i have been thrashing on mine ALOT lately and it is still holding together but to me alot is about equal to 10 1/4mile runs a week, some people might do that every day.
if you really want the thing to last you might want to look at forged rods and pistons. then make the power however you choose.
i am running as much as 8psi and a 75shot on a stock 6.0 longblock, i would say they are overbuilt. it kind of depends on how often you plan on hammering it as to how long it will last, i have been thrashing on mine ALOT lately and it is still holding together but to me alot is about equal to 10 1/4mile runs a week, some people might do that every day.
if you really want the thing to last you might want to look at forged rods and pistons. then make the power however you choose.
04-19-2003, 01:31 PM
#5
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Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
Hodgeee,5.3 uses the same crank and rods as a LS1,you can even bore the 5.3 to take 5.7 pistons the engine will probably live making 600hp at the flywheel.Heads and cams will swap between engines.
04-19-2003, 01:42 PM
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Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
Sorry, yeah the predator tranny, is just a built 4l60e made to handle 600hp and 640lbs of toque. Ive seen it priced between $1450 to $2100, then the torque converter to handle that power on top of that price.
whitt1: What setup do you have, motor size? I read your post, and see you got the Radix charger that I am saving up for now.
<small>[ April 19, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: hodgeee ]</small>
whitt1: What setup do you have, motor size? I read your post, and see you got the Radix charger that I am saving up for now.
<small>[ April 19, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: hodgeee ]</small>
04-19-2003, 02:53 PM
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Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
Nothing wrong with being a Ford guy, I too am building a Ford... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Stock automatics usually draw about 20% powerloss, when they are "built", there are usually a few clutches added and very little play with the internals. Most Ford AOD's sap 22-27% when fully built!
5.3 (3.78") have a smaller bore than the 5.7 (3.9") blocks. Someone said that you can bore that out .120" over. That is a huge overbore. I doubt that as the waterjackets for the block are around those limits. You may just want to look into a 6.0 iron block or a 5.7 aluminum. If you started with a 6.0L iron block it has a 4" bore and a 3.62" stroke (similar to a 351W) also has 6 bolt (!) mains. If you go with a 5.7 aluminum block, you will need really expensive machine work to get over a 4" bore. It will need new cylinder sleeves. The 5.3 can't be bored too much so getting 400cid out of it can't be done.
Okay, glad to see you are realistic about the spending to go fast. The more speed you need, the more stuff breaks...thus needing to be swapped out.
Rear axle...if you aren't going with slicks then an Eaton, T/A girdle should be fine. I read that someone makes billet main caps too. Ford 8.8" aren't the strongest in stock form. But with a good carrier, new axles, and a girdle the can be nice. James_B on FSC.com grenaded an 8.5" with a Whipple and a few minor bolt ons.
A naturally aspirated motor is under less stress than a forced induction motor is. There is no extra load forced in. An N/A motor breathes easier and pulls more in is where the power comes from. Fully ported cylinder heads increase flow and a bigger cam (larger duration) increases the air intake into the head. Both making 375rwhp, the N/A motor will be in better shape than the FI one.
Lunati makes internals, Scat, and Eagle too. The stock crank is really strong, I believe it is made of nodular iron. Diamond or Ross pistons seem to be what most use. Heads, well that depends on what name you like. MTI, Thunder Racing, TEA, all do heads. Some are hand done others are C&C. 5.3 heads have smaller valves (1.89/1.55) than the 5.7 heads.
If the motor is built right, it will last. Forged pistons and forged rods. Make sure it is bored with torque plates. Run all new high quality bearings. Use ARP hardware and studs are preferred. Be sure to break in the motor properly. Seat the rings properly. Change oil at 500mi. Then at 2000mi again. No speeding in the first 2500mi.
My next post will be how to built a stout 4L60E (not for $2500!), so keep an eye out for that...
Stock automatics usually draw about 20% powerloss, when they are "built", there are usually a few clutches added and very little play with the internals. Most Ford AOD's sap 22-27% when fully built!
5.3 (3.78") have a smaller bore than the 5.7 (3.9") blocks. Someone said that you can bore that out .120" over. That is a huge overbore. I doubt that as the waterjackets for the block are around those limits. You may just want to look into a 6.0 iron block or a 5.7 aluminum. If you started with a 6.0L iron block it has a 4" bore and a 3.62" stroke (similar to a 351W) also has 6 bolt (!) mains. If you go with a 5.7 aluminum block, you will need really expensive machine work to get over a 4" bore. It will need new cylinder sleeves. The 5.3 can't be bored too much so getting 400cid out of it can't be done.
Okay, glad to see you are realistic about the spending to go fast. The more speed you need, the more stuff breaks...thus needing to be swapped out.
Rear axle...if you aren't going with slicks then an Eaton, T/A girdle should be fine. I read that someone makes billet main caps too. Ford 8.8" aren't the strongest in stock form. But with a good carrier, new axles, and a girdle the can be nice. James_B on FSC.com grenaded an 8.5" with a Whipple and a few minor bolt ons.
A naturally aspirated motor is under less stress than a forced induction motor is. There is no extra load forced in. An N/A motor breathes easier and pulls more in is where the power comes from. Fully ported cylinder heads increase flow and a bigger cam (larger duration) increases the air intake into the head. Both making 375rwhp, the N/A motor will be in better shape than the FI one.
Lunati makes internals, Scat, and Eagle too. The stock crank is really strong, I believe it is made of nodular iron. Diamond or Ross pistons seem to be what most use. Heads, well that depends on what name you like. MTI, Thunder Racing, TEA, all do heads. Some are hand done others are C&C. 5.3 heads have smaller valves (1.89/1.55) than the 5.7 heads.
If the motor is built right, it will last. Forged pistons and forged rods. Make sure it is bored with torque plates. Run all new high quality bearings. Use ARP hardware and studs are preferred. Be sure to break in the motor properly. Seat the rings properly. Change oil at 500mi. Then at 2000mi again. No speeding in the first 2500mi.
My next post will be how to built a stout 4L60E (not for $2500!), so keep an eye out for that...
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04-19-2003, 03:10 PM
#8
Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
"No speeding in the first 2500mi." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
my motor will be lucky to see 100miles before i start beating on it. maybe give it 200miles before i put the 9psi pully and 150shot to it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
my motor will be lucky to see 100miles before i start beating on it. maybe give it 200miles before i put the 9psi pully and 150shot to it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
04-19-2003, 03:38 PM
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Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
You gotta try not to. Everything has to seat properly. There is lots of crap in the oil too with a fresh motor, that is why the oil changes.
I broke in my WRX the same way. Once I get cashed up that is going to be a 16psi+35 shot ride w/ full exhaust, stall, ECU, ported turbo, big top mount intercooler. Hello mid 12 sec sneak ride. Someone on the Impreza boards is running 25psi+50 shot for about 20000miles with lots of drag time and still has ~160psi in the cylinders...all with a stock 2.0 block!
I broke in my WRX the same way. Once I get cashed up that is going to be a 16psi+35 shot ride w/ full exhaust, stall, ECU, ported turbo, big top mount intercooler. Hello mid 12 sec sneak ride. Someone on the Impreza boards is running 25psi+50 shot for about 20000miles with lots of drag time and still has ~160psi in the cylinders...all with a stock 2.0 block!
04-19-2003, 03:47 PM
#10
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Re: What can the 5.3 block handle.
I'm running a stock transmission with a corvette servo and a Yank 3000 convertor.I do change my transmission fluid every 12000mi and run a big cooler.I also changed my differential fluid at 12000mi after 30000mi and lots of abuse no problems.I'm running the Magnacharger with the stock pulleys,with ASM headers and a Flowmaster catback exhaust.At 3000rpm my boost guage shows 7lbs which climbs to about 91/2lbs at 5500rpms.The Tahoe is making about 400hp at the wheels and drives around town with road manners your grandmother could love.