Are the tall deck blocks gaining interest?
12-31-2009, 08:39 PM
#1
Are the tall deck blocks gaining interest?
We all know the nostalgia of the tall deck blocks in pickups. Yes, they require an intake designed for the increase in separation of the heads from the centerline of the engine. But who WOULDNT want to build a 500 CI LSX? Especially for less than the alum blocks of the same deck height are.
AND the GM ones do not take alot of special accessories. The main one being the intake.
Of course the rotating assembly is different, but only because it can take a nasty stroke. You can use the same stroke crank out of your other LS engines yes. Just make sure to get a rod to work with the piston. Not the best option, but they can help keep cost down. This is the beauty of the LS style of engines. You can build BBC displacement while using alot of the parts from the GEN III SBC design. It is the best of both worlds.
SO.....who is going to be the first to build a tall deck 454? 468? 500? 502? IN their pickup? It is a very tantalizing deal.
There are a few parts that are somewhat cost prohibitive, but I am sure they will go down in price after the "novelty of the one-off" wears off. The crankshafts are somewhat pricey at about 2800+ but right now they are all billet cranks. The good news is that they will normally be center weighted cranks and from CALLIES, we are offering the magnum. Everyone will recognize that the magnum is part of their lighter brand of cranks. SO, this will help offset the weight price that you pay with it. They will be offered in a 4.500 and i hear a 4.600. So, by using the 4.185 bore and a 4.5" stroke, you have a 496. Bump that up to the 4.6 and you have 502 cubic inches of LS swapped power. These strokes will take a mandatory 6.340/6.440/6.540 rods. Obviously the CH of the piston (custom right now) will be compromised by using the longer rods and each will go down from there.
But, people have already been doing this for a while. Using long strokes and long rods to get the means to an end. The rods are not too expensive really. The compstar rods are looking like a little bit more than the normal compstar 6.125/6.200 rods.
The pistons are still up in the air, but I will try to update this post (hopefully) with the price for almost any custom piston set, or if they become available, off shelf ones.
At 2299.95 this block is extremely affordable.
BUT what about the intakes? You say you JUST bought a new FAST 102 or 92 or some custom carbonfiber/cast alum/etc intake and do not want to buy another one? Well GMPP does make the tall deck LSX LS7 intake (carb style with fuel injection bosses). Do not like that? Well we are working towards a solution to have the spacers made that will help you use any of your intakes that you have on them.
So my first question is....who wants to try to make it work? I know that the block is a little on the hefty side, but I do not think a high HP big CI truck will mind carrying around an extra 40 lbs from the normal LSX or a little over 100 lbs from the alum counterparts.
We have a few on hand right now ready to ship at that price. We are working on a few shortblocks right now for customers as well.
AND the GM ones do not take alot of special accessories. The main one being the intake.
Of course the rotating assembly is different, but only because it can take a nasty stroke. You can use the same stroke crank out of your other LS engines yes. Just make sure to get a rod to work with the piston. Not the best option, but they can help keep cost down. This is the beauty of the LS style of engines. You can build BBC displacement while using alot of the parts from the GEN III SBC design. It is the best of both worlds.
SO.....who is going to be the first to build a tall deck 454? 468? 500? 502? IN their pickup? It is a very tantalizing deal.
There are a few parts that are somewhat cost prohibitive, but I am sure they will go down in price after the "novelty of the one-off" wears off. The crankshafts are somewhat pricey at about 2800+ but right now they are all billet cranks. The good news is that they will normally be center weighted cranks and from CALLIES, we are offering the magnum. Everyone will recognize that the magnum is part of their lighter brand of cranks. SO, this will help offset the weight price that you pay with it. They will be offered in a 4.500 and i hear a 4.600. So, by using the 4.185 bore and a 4.5" stroke, you have a 496. Bump that up to the 4.6 and you have 502 cubic inches of LS swapped power. These strokes will take a mandatory 6.340/6.440/6.540 rods. Obviously the CH of the piston (custom right now) will be compromised by using the longer rods and each will go down from there.
But, people have already been doing this for a while. Using long strokes and long rods to get the means to an end. The rods are not too expensive really. The compstar rods are looking like a little bit more than the normal compstar 6.125/6.200 rods.
The pistons are still up in the air, but I will try to update this post (hopefully) with the price for almost any custom piston set, or if they become available, off shelf ones.
At 2299.95 this block is extremely affordable.
BUT what about the intakes? You say you JUST bought a new FAST 102 or 92 or some custom carbonfiber/cast alum/etc intake and do not want to buy another one? Well GMPP does make the tall deck LSX LS7 intake (carb style with fuel injection bosses). Do not like that? Well we are working towards a solution to have the spacers made that will help you use any of your intakes that you have on them.
So my first question is....who wants to try to make it work? I know that the block is a little on the hefty side, but I do not think a high HP big CI truck will mind carrying around an extra 40 lbs from the normal LSX or a little over 100 lbs from the alum counterparts.
We have a few on hand right now ready to ship at that price. We are working on a few shortblocks right now for customers as well.
12-31-2009, 09:19 PM
#2
I'd love a 502 with a TVS 2300 sitting on top of it. How about sponsoring a build? I have decent truck to set one between the frame rails. I'd even break my cardinal rule of no stickers on the truck and sport a Scoggin Dickey sticker anywhere you wanted it placed. 
12-31-2009, 09:31 PM
#4
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I'd be interested to find out a price for a short block. Sorry for the amateur question but would be able to use a 'stock' ls based heads? How far along are you guys on finding out a remedy for the intakes? It would be sick when someone asks you whats under the hood and you say a 454 or something!
Thanks
Thanks
12-31-2009, 10:52 PM
#5
well a 454 can be built out of a normal LSX. It can be built out of the tall deck as well, and due to the rod length produce more power. the big thing is saying a 496 or a 500 or 502....etc.
the stockstyle LS heads can be used on this one as well as the 6 bolt style. i would recommend a head that flows well though.
as for the intakes, there are spacers that will take up the gap that we are talking to a few companies about. FAST shows thier PN already, and ill repost up with price when i find out on monday.
Depending on how big you want to go, it will change the price of the shortblock. the longer stroke cranks, esp if they are only avail in billet, will be more money. in this sense, above the 468ci will cost more than the ones below that price for the most part.
the stockstyle LS heads can be used on this one as well as the 6 bolt style. i would recommend a head that flows well though.
as for the intakes, there are spacers that will take up the gap that we are talking to a few companies about. FAST shows thier PN already, and ill repost up with price when i find out on monday.
Depending on how big you want to go, it will change the price of the shortblock. the longer stroke cranks, esp if they are only avail in billet, will be more money. in this sense, above the 468ci will cost more than the ones below that price for the most part.
01-01-2010, 08:37 AM
#7
Somehow I knew that. 
I was just kidding and hoping I didn't **** you off.
I do plan on building something in the next couple years and different is good so long as it makes more power and reliably. I'll be on a budget and what I'm seeing so far this route will be WAY out of anything I could muster.
I was just kidding and hoping I didn't **** you off. I do plan on building something in the next couple years and different is good so long as it makes more power and reliably. I'll be on a budget and what I'm seeing so far this route will be WAY out of anything I could muster.
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01-01-2010, 12:25 PM
#9
the interest is DEFINITELY there!!! the cost is what will keep most of us from pursuing (today). There is great value in the tall deck LSX block IMO but the support just isn't quite there yet. I'm sure I speak for others when I say thank you for helping us out and pushing the parts availability envelope so us dreamers can realize something of this caliber sooner 
01-01-2010, 07:35 PM
#10
well in the world of go big or go home....how much BIGGER can you go than this? for all the larger CI builds, this is one of the more affordable ones. kinda sad, but realistic. and i "believe" that the 4.500 magnum will be available in a forged cast form, which keep the cost down. honestly they have to be a magnum to keep the weight down and work on the design so you are not automatically stuck with a rod that is so long, you have to sacrifice alot of CH on it.
Just like the regular LSX blocks, these come in sproadically. we have around 20 on hand, but they do sell. you do not have to have the last name Majors to run this. I have seem some people lately use these like any build, but the parts when you can.
the rods and block is inexpensive enough, and im sure the custom pistons will normally be more than a normal off shelf set. i will be working with some piston companies soon to see what they can do so we can offer a somewhat flat rate charge for the custom setups.
no KYS you didnt upset me. it happens at least once a day. you helped me reach that quota lol.
and as for a billet crank on the street....its not silly due to the ability to change the "normal" design of a crank, but it sure is cost prohibitive.
Will we see a compstar in larger than a 4.125 to build the CI that these engines can take? maybe...anytime soon? no. remember i DID say that you can use the 4" and up in these blocks. it may not build the CI, but it will produce a heck of a lot of torque due to the long rod. the piston would be a little bit heavier, but im sure that can be massaged as well. it sure would help with running massive amounts of boost or nitrous having so much room for ring land placement.
remember GM built the BBCs as short decks and tall decks in the SAME cubic inches. you can with these as well. the only problem is thinking outside the box.
Doing a tall deck like that is still taking advantage of it, because you are using it for its intended purpose....to produce alot of power. IF anything, it has alot more ability to produce more even in boost or nitrous with large cubic inches because of these advantages.
Honestly i could go on and on, and as you can see, there are not a HUGE amount of things that make this too cost prohibitive. PLUS you can recycle the block and possibly rods to build even MORE CI when you either have the money for crank and pistons OR when they become less espensive.
Just like the regular LSX blocks, these come in sproadically. we have around 20 on hand, but they do sell. you do not have to have the last name Majors to run this. I have seem some people lately use these like any build, but the parts when you can.
the rods and block is inexpensive enough, and im sure the custom pistons will normally be more than a normal off shelf set. i will be working with some piston companies soon to see what they can do so we can offer a somewhat flat rate charge for the custom setups.
no KYS you didnt upset me. it happens at least once a day. you helped me reach that quota lol.
and as for a billet crank on the street....its not silly due to the ability to change the "normal" design of a crank, but it sure is cost prohibitive.
Will we see a compstar in larger than a 4.125 to build the CI that these engines can take? maybe...anytime soon? no. remember i DID say that you can use the 4" and up in these blocks. it may not build the CI, but it will produce a heck of a lot of torque due to the long rod. the piston would be a little bit heavier, but im sure that can be massaged as well. it sure would help with running massive amounts of boost or nitrous having so much room for ring land placement.
remember GM built the BBCs as short decks and tall decks in the SAME cubic inches. you can with these as well. the only problem is thinking outside the box.
Doing a tall deck like that is still taking advantage of it, because you are using it for its intended purpose....to produce alot of power. IF anything, it has alot more ability to produce more even in boost or nitrous with large cubic inches because of these advantages.
Honestly i could go on and on, and as you can see, there are not a HUGE amount of things that make this too cost prohibitive. PLUS you can recycle the block and possibly rods to build even MORE CI when you either have the money for crank and pistons OR when they become less espensive.