Vortec 350 Mods!
04-24-2006, 06:14 PM
#1
Vortec 350 Mods!
Hey guys.
You all seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to Modding out your newer generation Vortecs, but I'm lookin for a little help with the Gen I vortec(I know this thing is old news, but I need help anyway). I was recently lookin at the ZZ383 GM Performance motor and was thinking about putting some of those mods on my truck for more power. I would love to do a cam swap, some new heads, and a Ram Jet manifold upgrade. For the heads I was thinking about either the Fast Burn Cylinder heads or the Vortec Bow Tie Cylinder heads (open to suggestion) for the set up. As for the cam... How would the 350 perform with the same cam thats in the ZZ? Its specs are .509/.528 lift steel camshaft with 222/230 duration at .050 lift. Once again I am open to some serious suggestion here (I really have no Idea what will be best) and how high of a stall converter would work well with the cam you recommend?
My last questions are for the Ram Jet Manifold. This thing flows some serious air! I was lookin for some opinions on this bad boy. How will it work with the rest of the mods listed above? Will I need to have my MAF sensor still hooked to the end of it, or does the ram jet have sensors of its own?
I also have some Thorley Tri-y headers that I would love to keep, so heads that will work with those would be a bonus!
Thanks fo rthe help guys!!!
-Rob Nap
You all seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to Modding out your newer generation Vortecs, but I'm lookin for a little help with the Gen I vortec(I know this thing is old news, but I need help anyway). I was recently lookin at the ZZ383 GM Performance motor and was thinking about putting some of those mods on my truck for more power. I would love to do a cam swap, some new heads, and a Ram Jet manifold upgrade. For the heads I was thinking about either the Fast Burn Cylinder heads or the Vortec Bow Tie Cylinder heads (open to suggestion) for the set up. As for the cam... How would the 350 perform with the same cam thats in the ZZ? Its specs are .509/.528 lift steel camshaft with 222/230 duration at .050 lift. Once again I am open to some serious suggestion here (I really have no Idea what will be best) and how high of a stall converter would work well with the cam you recommend?
My last questions are for the Ram Jet Manifold. This thing flows some serious air! I was lookin for some opinions on this bad boy. How will it work with the rest of the mods listed above? Will I need to have my MAF sensor still hooked to the end of it, or does the ram jet have sensors of its own?
I also have some Thorley Tri-y headers that I would love to keep, so heads that will work with those would be a bonus!
Thanks fo rthe help guys!!!
-Rob Nap
Last edited by Vortec350ss; 04-24-2006 at 06:20 PM.
04-24-2006, 07:30 PM
#2
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for the cam... i would go with the gm hot cam package with the springs, rocker arms and everything. i would keep the vortec heads, just have screw in studs installed, and 2.02/1.60 valves installed. as for the intake, i dont know much about them so i will let someone else answer that question. as for the stall, i would go with a 3000 or 3500...hope this helps.
04-24-2006, 10:10 PM
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I'd take a look at what James B. is currently doing to his truck. Just change your cam and compression to suit FI or naturally aspirated use.
He has E-Tec 200's now and is going with a HT383 shortblock to replace the stock L31 shortblock. That Ramjet manifold looks damn cool. You could either do that or the marine intake like James B. has.
He has E-Tec 200's now and is going with a HT383 shortblock to replace the stock L31 shortblock. That Ramjet manifold looks damn cool. You could either do that or the marine intake like James B. has.
04-24-2006, 10:22 PM
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Im sorry but Im going to have to disagree with 912jonathan on this. The LT4 hotcam is great for LT1's but I have heard bad things about it in the gen I's. However Lingenfelter makes great cams for the good ol' L31. PM 350vortec. He has the Lingenfelter cam in his truck as well as a very nice list of mods. He knows what hes doing so listento him. Hog also knows what hes talking about, but he's from canada, so I dunno if you want to believe a canadian. 
04-24-2006, 10:32 PM
#5
Yea I talk to Vortec350 online all the time. I just wanted to know what some of you guys thought. Charlie is the man though... he def. knows his way around these Gen I vortecs thats for sure!
Thanks for the info guys and keep it comin!!!
-Rob Nap
Thanks for the info guys and keep it comin!!!
-Rob Nap
04-25-2006, 02:01 AM
#7
Howdy.
First, cylinder heads. I sort these into two major categories, symetrical exhaust ports and "D"-shaped exhaust ports.
If you are willing to go to the hassle of having headers customized for D-shaped ports you have some choices:
1. GM Fast-Burn aluminum heads. Part #12464298. 62cc chambers, 210cc intake, 78cc exhaust, 2.0" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves. Supports 0.54" cam lift.
2. GM Bowtie Vortec - Large Port. (Cast Iron) Part #25534431. 65cc chambers, 206cc intake, 77cc exhaust, 2.0" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves. Supports 0.53" cam lift.
If you want to stick with the symetrical exhaust ports you have more options:
1. Get your stock Vortec heads machined for different seals and springs to overcome the 0.475" lift limitation. Chamber volume is 64cc, intake valves are 1.94", exhaust valves are 1.50".
2. GM Bowtie Vortec - Small Port. (Cast Iron) Part #25534421. 65cc chambers, 175cc intake, 65cc exhaust, 2.0" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves. Supports 0.53" cam lift.
3. Edelbrock E-Tec 170 (aluminum) 64cc chambers, 170cc intake volume, 1.94" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves.
4. Edelbrock E-Tec 200 (aluminum) 64cc chambers, 200cc intake volume, 2.02" intake valves, 1.60" exhaust valves.
There are AFR heads that work too, but at $3200+ per pair I don't think these would be considered anyway.
The RamJet intake will work if you don't mind losing EGR and you can figure out a way to either program out, or plumb in the MAF sensor. (It is possible to run the OEM PCM in speed-density only.) You'll need the larger injectors. The stock computer can support any size engine and injectors, but it will have to be programmed for it. If you want to be doing this yourself you will then need a product called TunerCATs OBD-II so you can edit the PCM parameters.
The cam will depend on where you want the power. Keep in mind the OEM computer will cannot do more than 5800RPM no matter how fuel-cutoff is programmed. For that reason it does you no good to overcam these engines, even if your valvetrain is built to support the higher RPM.
There are a few other things we can talk about. I'll check in tomorrow to see where this thread is going.
-James
First, cylinder heads. I sort these into two major categories, symetrical exhaust ports and "D"-shaped exhaust ports.
If you are willing to go to the hassle of having headers customized for D-shaped ports you have some choices:
1. GM Fast-Burn aluminum heads. Part #12464298. 62cc chambers, 210cc intake, 78cc exhaust, 2.0" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves. Supports 0.54" cam lift.
2. GM Bowtie Vortec - Large Port. (Cast Iron) Part #25534431. 65cc chambers, 206cc intake, 77cc exhaust, 2.0" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves. Supports 0.53" cam lift.
If you want to stick with the symetrical exhaust ports you have more options:
1. Get your stock Vortec heads machined for different seals and springs to overcome the 0.475" lift limitation. Chamber volume is 64cc, intake valves are 1.94", exhaust valves are 1.50".
2. GM Bowtie Vortec - Small Port. (Cast Iron) Part #25534421. 65cc chambers, 175cc intake, 65cc exhaust, 2.0" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves. Supports 0.53" cam lift.
3. Edelbrock E-Tec 170 (aluminum) 64cc chambers, 170cc intake volume, 1.94" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust valves.
4. Edelbrock E-Tec 200 (aluminum) 64cc chambers, 200cc intake volume, 2.02" intake valves, 1.60" exhaust valves.
There are AFR heads that work too, but at $3200+ per pair I don't think these would be considered anyway.
The RamJet intake will work if you don't mind losing EGR and you can figure out a way to either program out, or plumb in the MAF sensor. (It is possible to run the OEM PCM in speed-density only.) You'll need the larger injectors. The stock computer can support any size engine and injectors, but it will have to be programmed for it. If you want to be doing this yourself you will then need a product called TunerCATs OBD-II so you can edit the PCM parameters.
The cam will depend on where you want the power. Keep in mind the OEM computer will cannot do more than 5800RPM no matter how fuel-cutoff is programmed. For that reason it does you no good to overcam these engines, even if your valvetrain is built to support the higher RPM.
There are a few other things we can talk about. I'll check in tomorrow to see where this thread is going.
-James
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04-25-2006, 03:27 PM
#8
Thanks for the welcome Whippled!
Thanks for all the info James.
1.) I guess I'll stick to heads that have the symmetrical exhaust ports. So that leaves me with the Bowtie's and the edelbrock's. I guess I would be leaning a little more toward the Bow tie heads. Any more info or suggestion you can give me on these would be awesome man!
2.) On to the ram jet Manifold. What do you mean by losing EGR? As for the bigger injectors I know someone who can tune for all that stuff, and he will most likely be doing the mod first so he will have planty of time to play around with it on his truck
. As for the MAF, I guess I'll just have to Just extend the wires and make an intake tube that includes it.
3.) On to the cam. I'm lookin for a cam that will be pretty beastly, I would also like some low end power too. I dont want to be forced to have a huge stall converter. Keep in mind I have over sized tires, I think I'm gonna switch it to 3.90 gears, and I think I would be happy with around a 2500 stall. Since the max RPM is just shy of 6K anyway, whats the best cam I can get that will drop off at around the max RPM (say 5700 or so) since I will prolly only spin it up to about 5500. I want it to sound pretty crazy at idle too.
Again, I'm very open to suggestion.
Thanks for all the info man!
-Rob Nap
Thanks for all the info James.
1.) I guess I'll stick to heads that have the symmetrical exhaust ports. So that leaves me with the Bowtie's and the edelbrock's. I guess I would be leaning a little more toward the Bow tie heads. Any more info or suggestion you can give me on these would be awesome man!
2.) On to the ram jet Manifold. What do you mean by losing EGR? As for the bigger injectors I know someone who can tune for all that stuff, and he will most likely be doing the mod first so he will have planty of time to play around with it on his truck
. As for the MAF, I guess I'll just have to Just extend the wires and make an intake tube that includes it.3.) On to the cam. I'm lookin for a cam that will be pretty beastly, I would also like some low end power too. I dont want to be forced to have a huge stall converter. Keep in mind I have over sized tires, I think I'm gonna switch it to 3.90 gears, and I think I would be happy with around a 2500 stall. Since the max RPM is just shy of 6K anyway, whats the best cam I can get that will drop off at around the max RPM (say 5700 or so) since I will prolly only spin it up to about 5500. I want it to sound pretty crazy at idle too.
Again, I'm very open to suggestion.
Thanks for all the info man!
-Rob Nap
04-26-2006, 06:43 PM
#9
BTW You didnt say much about the performance of the Ram Jet manifold. What do you think of it performance wise? I'm basically lookin for any opinion or recommendation you can give me about mods like the ones discussed in this thread or others you like.
-Rob Nap
-Rob Nap
04-26-2006, 11:14 PM
#10
Just about ANY manifold bolted on that engine to replace the stock one will be a huge improvement. I don't know if you have ever seen inside of one of these things before, it's a maze and a nest. If upgraded to the new Multec-II injection assembly it gets even more obstructive inside. The worst thing about it is being limited to stock injectors.
EGR is exhaust-gas-recirculation. It's purpose is to reduce oxides of nitrogen and is therefore a smog component. None of the aftermarket manifolds, or the RamJet manifold, give you a way to keep this system intact. The only reason I mention this is that in some states all of your OEM smog equipment must remain intact and functional.
I would suggest learing now how to tune your truck yourself. You will need something that can log O2, MAP, LTrim, and RPM in real time. There are several packages available for this. I use AutoTap but am not entirely happy with it. They prefer to release a new major version number to fix bugs instead of minor patches and updates provided to existing customers at no charge as they should be. Of course, major version upgrades cost and they offer little incentive to remain loyal to them.
Up until recently there hasn't been any real competition to AutoTap for this generation of PCM. Monodax has now relased a product called MXScan which works with the hardware interface used for TunerCATs. TunerCATs-OBDII is the hardware and software package you can use to read and write to your PCM. It does not do montoring though, only programming.
For the things you want to do you really need to learn to program it yourself. Shifting at a higher RPM, raising the fuel-cutoff limit, changing pulses per mile for gears and tires, timing, fuel, power enrichment, even idle RPM will all have to change. The cam is going to need a reduction in fuel delivered at low RPM and an increase at high RPM. The stock fuel map is not intended to provide much power over 4800 RPM because the stock valvetrain and cam can't make anything over that. All of that will have to be changed. Doing it yourself allows you to make calculation based on logging and make changes based on calulations. You'll learn it and become so familiar with it you'll be able to tell by sound and feel if it's too rich or too lean. It's also possible to log knock retard and start advancing timing if you've got a solid enough setup to do so.
Any manifold will be better than stock, just make sure you take into consideration the throttle body and all its functionality: cruise control linkage, TPS, IAC. If you install something different you're going to have to adapt hardware and wiring connectors.
EGR is exhaust-gas-recirculation. It's purpose is to reduce oxides of nitrogen and is therefore a smog component. None of the aftermarket manifolds, or the RamJet manifold, give you a way to keep this system intact. The only reason I mention this is that in some states all of your OEM smog equipment must remain intact and functional.
I would suggest learing now how to tune your truck yourself. You will need something that can log O2, MAP, LTrim, and RPM in real time. There are several packages available for this. I use AutoTap but am not entirely happy with it. They prefer to release a new major version number to fix bugs instead of minor patches and updates provided to existing customers at no charge as they should be. Of course, major version upgrades cost and they offer little incentive to remain loyal to them.
Up until recently there hasn't been any real competition to AutoTap for this generation of PCM. Monodax has now relased a product called MXScan which works with the hardware interface used for TunerCATs. TunerCATs-OBDII is the hardware and software package you can use to read and write to your PCM. It does not do montoring though, only programming.
For the things you want to do you really need to learn to program it yourself. Shifting at a higher RPM, raising the fuel-cutoff limit, changing pulses per mile for gears and tires, timing, fuel, power enrichment, even idle RPM will all have to change. The cam is going to need a reduction in fuel delivered at low RPM and an increase at high RPM. The stock fuel map is not intended to provide much power over 4800 RPM because the stock valvetrain and cam can't make anything over that. All of that will have to be changed. Doing it yourself allows you to make calculation based on logging and make changes based on calulations. You'll learn it and become so familiar with it you'll be able to tell by sound and feel if it's too rich or too lean. It's also possible to log knock retard and start advancing timing if you've got a solid enough setup to do so.
Any manifold will be better than stock, just make sure you take into consideration the throttle body and all its functionality: cruise control linkage, TPS, IAC. If you install something different you're going to have to adapt hardware and wiring connectors.