First time on dyno
04-19-2012 | 03:36 PM
#21
04-19-2012 | 10:03 PM
#22
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Norman,OK
To the OP, don't take this as disrespect. I'm simply trying to help you with the following.
Your a/f ratios are extremely lean for WOT. I would ask the tuner to add about 12% more fuel to get you in the low 13's or you will blow your motor up eventually.
Notice the sharp "VVV" jagged lines between 4-4.5k rpms? That's engine knock. Could be from too much timing but judging by how lean it is, it's pretty clear it needs more fuel. That whole "lean is mean" crap is a bunch of BS. Most n/a cars will make peak hp between 12.8-13.5:1 a/f ratio. Sometimes running on the richer side of this range will loose some power but gain torque. The reverse is also generally true. Expect your power and torque to pick up further when you move your a/f ratios into this range.
You're probably knocking throughout the whole rev range by running that lean but by design automatics tend to hide knock from the dyno much easier than through a manual transmission. Yes, knock can be seen on a dyno chart by turning the smoothing down to zero like on your chart and knowing what to look for since even a really bad wheel bearing can show up. If knocking is bad enough, it can be heard or even felt through the gas pedal at times, especially on manual transmissions.
Good luck and again, I'm not trying to bash you. Just ran across your chart on google images doing some research and couldn't hold not saying anything about it and yes, I've been tuning for 9 years now with all manufacturers.
Your a/f ratios are extremely lean for WOT. I would ask the tuner to add about 12% more fuel to get you in the low 13's or you will blow your motor up eventually.
Notice the sharp "VVV" jagged lines between 4-4.5k rpms? That's engine knock. Could be from too much timing but judging by how lean it is, it's pretty clear it needs more fuel. That whole "lean is mean" crap is a bunch of BS. Most n/a cars will make peak hp between 12.8-13.5:1 a/f ratio. Sometimes running on the richer side of this range will loose some power but gain torque. The reverse is also generally true. Expect your power and torque to pick up further when you move your a/f ratios into this range.
You're probably knocking throughout the whole rev range by running that lean but by design automatics tend to hide knock from the dyno much easier than through a manual transmission. Yes, knock can be seen on a dyno chart by turning the smoothing down to zero like on your chart and knowing what to look for since even a really bad wheel bearing can show up. If knocking is bad enough, it can be heard or even felt through the gas pedal at times, especially on manual transmissions.
Good luck and again, I'm not trying to bash you. Just ran across your chart on google images doing some research and couldn't hold not saying anything about it and yes, I've been tuning for 9 years now with all manufacturers.
I figured the roughness was from noise from using an inductive rpm pickup around a sparkplug wire, although you are correct that knock would look similiar. If the knock settings havent been changed though, the decay is pretty slow so it should spike, then smoothen out, then spike again if it was real knock, but his is unsteady all the time... That afr looks like stoich...I have to question if the wideband was even hooked up?
04-19-2012 | 10:15 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Norman,OK
My plan is to order a 76mm turbo kit from trick performance, order some 60lb injectors, and walbro 255 in tack pump, triple 12 cam, and 4l80E trans with shift kit servos, and stall. Id like around 500-600 at the wheels at some point. Not sure to have tune it or what exhaust to run with it so far though. Any advice and suggestions for my current and future setups will be greatly appreciated. My goal is 12.0 or faster with my CCSB and my 5.3 and a turbo setup
04-19-2012 | 10:43 PM
#25
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Norman,OK
im not sure what stall to go with for the setup, was kinda thinking around 3000-3200. Also with the 80e's will i need a shorter or longer drive shaft? Or is it the same as what i have now? I will be lowering the truck again once i get some proper drop parts to keep my drive line at the proper angles. And if it uses the same as what i have now figured id swap to the 2 piece drive shaft out of an ECSB while the trans would be out
04-20-2012 | 08:08 AM
#26
I figured the roughness was from noise from using an inductive rpm pickup around a sparkplug wire, although you are correct that knock would look similiar. If the knock settings havent been changed though, the decay is pretty slow so it should spike, then smoothen out, then spike again if it was real knock, but his is unsteady all the time... That afr looks like stoich...I have to question if the wideband was even hooked up?
It's not roughness from using an rpm pickup around a spark plug wire either. I've been using the inductive pick up on the spark plug wire for years. When the inductive pick up has trouble reading then it shows as a blank area in the line of the chart. The trouble usually stems from either lack of grounds on a car or electrical interference from another spark plug wire that's way too close to the one being used by the dyno. Sometimes if it's really brief then you can set it to speed instead of rpm and it will fill in the blank line if it's really brief but the jagged lines associated with knock will still be there and look identical.
The stock ecu can retard all the timing it wants but it's not going to make a difference because the issue is not timing related, it's fuel (pre-ignition). Hence why it knocks as bad and last as long as it does. The fact it's transmitting this bad through a torque converter which tend to mask knock from the dyno makes it even worst.
To the OP, when you get bored, do a WOT pass and pull over shortly, let it cool down and remove your spark plugs and read them. Be prepared to swap new ones and avoid WOT till you get a tune in there.
Last edited by Spent; 04-20-2012 at 08:28 AM.
04-20-2012 | 08:58 AM
#27
Good to know lol, i figured it was like the 60e's so i figured it would use servos also and that it wouldve been a good upgrade to do haha.
im not sure what stall to go with for the setup, was kinda thinking around 3000-3200. Also with the 80e's will i need a shorter or longer drive shaft? Or is it the same as what i have now? I will be lowering the truck again once i get some proper drop parts to keep my drive line at the proper angles. And if it uses the same as what i have now figured id swap to the 2 piece drive shaft out of an ECSB while the trans would be out
im not sure what stall to go with for the setup, was kinda thinking around 3000-3200. Also with the 80e's will i need a shorter or longer drive shaft? Or is it the same as what i have now? I will be lowering the truck again once i get some proper drop parts to keep my drive line at the proper angles. And if it uses the same as what i have now figured id swap to the 2 piece drive shaft out of an ECSB while the trans would be out
Talk with Chris @ CircleD, he can give you advice and help you decide which one would suit your setup.
The 80E is just a little longer than the 60E, Im not sure how the CC are setup, but if you swap to a 2 peice your goin to need a mounting bracket for the swing bearing. Just get a TH400 yoke and you should be good to go if the CCSB and ECSB have the same length from the Tailhousing to pinon.
