A completely different kind of project.
02-13-2011, 04:13 AM
#66
There's no magic. But if there was, the "magic" is in the understanding the complexities of the system and why it's there in the first place, and not being ignorant on it's purpose and deleting it because you think it useless. If anything you need to understand it's "magical" properties a little more.
Your trying to incorporate old technology with new, and are confused as to why we think it's a stupid idea, well...
Tuning a carburetor the correct way requires more than an adjustment of the idle screw, although lots of back yard mechanics were successful in just doing that. Each carburetor had many INDIVIDUAL pieces (Idle mixture screws, auxiliary idle air bypass bleed, idle feed restriction, idle air bleed, jetting, etc...) that all played a part in it's proper function. The benefit of a purely mechanical system is if you change one... it effects the others automatically, good and bad. Adjust the idle screw, it effects the airflow which directly affected the bowl which supplied the fuel, etc...
On an EFI motor the IAC isn't just a INDIVIDUAL piece that you can add, delete or modify because you lack understanding of it's complete function. The ECU is fed massive amounts of data from various other sensors and with that information computes the massive algorithms necessary to calculate the IAC's movements. Without the ability to control the idle airflow correctly the ECU will overcompensate and over-correct in other areas and will constantly struggle and most certainly always stall the vehicle out.
Can you make it work without it...maybe, can you do it so it works correctly...no. Your probably not running A/C but if you did, every time you'd turn it on your car would start to idle rough and die, or if you turned on your radio, if your e-fans turned on, if you turned your headlights on, if you rolled down your electric window, if you shift out of Park or Neutral, if you turn the freaking wheel even...your car would start to idle rough and die.
I hope you realize the point that is being made, and that's anything you do while sitting at idle that requires a load to be put on your motor, it would cause your car to stall.
All this has nothing to do with the dangers associated with the potential of that throttle blade sticking either which I'm tempted to get into, but won't.
Your trying to incorporate old technology with new, and are confused as to why we think it's a stupid idea, well...
Tuning a carburetor the correct way requires more than an adjustment of the idle screw, although lots of back yard mechanics were successful in just doing that. Each carburetor had many INDIVIDUAL pieces (Idle mixture screws, auxiliary idle air bypass bleed, idle feed restriction, idle air bleed, jetting, etc...) that all played a part in it's proper function. The benefit of a purely mechanical system is if you change one... it effects the others automatically, good and bad. Adjust the idle screw, it effects the airflow which directly affected the bowl which supplied the fuel, etc...
On an EFI motor the IAC isn't just a INDIVIDUAL piece that you can add, delete or modify because you lack understanding of it's complete function. The ECU is fed massive amounts of data from various other sensors and with that information computes the massive algorithms necessary to calculate the IAC's movements. Without the ability to control the idle airflow correctly the ECU will overcompensate and over-correct in other areas and will constantly struggle and most certainly always stall the vehicle out.
Can you make it work without it...maybe, can you do it so it works correctly...no. Your probably not running A/C but if you did, every time you'd turn it on your car would start to idle rough and die, or if you turned on your radio, if your e-fans turned on, if you turned your headlights on, if you rolled down your electric window, if you shift out of Park or Neutral, if you turn the freaking wheel even...your car would start to idle rough and die.
I hope you realize the point that is being made, and that's anything you do while sitting at idle that requires a load to be put on your motor, it would cause your car to stall.
All this has nothing to do with the dangers associated with the potential of that throttle blade sticking either which I'm tempted to get into, but won't.
02-13-2011, 06:51 AM
#67
I really don't understand why everyone thinks that a TB is magic.
A TB isn't "something as important". I am half temped to simply get a pipe ball valve mount it up and run it. Just to show all the people who think that a TB is so special and complicated, how truly simple it is. An electric cut would work good if you were DBW.
A TB isn't "something as important". I am half temped to simply get a pipe ball valve mount it up and run it. Just to show all the people who think that a TB is so special and complicated, how truly simple it is. An electric cut would work good if you were DBW.
The front brakes issue was question to see if anyone ever gave it a shot. Dragsters do it every day and there is a chance it could work out on a truck. I will play with it this summer just to see if it is feasible. Just for the record a track official said there would be ZERO issues running no front brakes at the track. Only issue he saw was that in competition you can't cross the start line on your burnout or you are disqualified.
He has a DIY for that too.
I am all for someone building their own parts. I actually wouldn’t mind if you did build the pop can piston, or make your own rod. Those are things that when they fail will not hurt you or anyone else. You have talked about serious safety issues for you and everyone around you. Before you line up next to someone tell them about your ideas, and I bet they let you make a solo run (It wouldn’t be because they think you are too fast either).
02-13-2011, 07:25 AM
#68
This cylinder of steel has been sitting in our shop for 2-3 years if not longer. Our shop is by no means sealed and ranges in temp exactly like outside. In the winter it is heated slightly but never gets warmer then 55 and the heat is shut off at night and almost instantly get down to the ambient temp. There is not a single sign of rust on the cylinder so I highly doubt it will magically star rusting when it is under the hood of my truck and will never see a rainy day outside.
There is moisture in the air but not enough to cause any rusting issues.The TB will never be at a point it makes excess moisture condense on it.
There is moisture in the air but not enough to cause any rusting issues.The TB will never be at a point it makes excess moisture condense on it.
02-13-2011, 07:33 AM
#69
Spoolin:
You make some valid points and thank your for being an adult and fellow racer to explain the potential issues. When I get the motor put together we will see what happens. If your suspicions are correct then I will see about incorporating and IAC or worse case admit defeat to the tune of $20 or less and buy a TB.
I see worse case scenario I will have to set idle slightly high(2-3 hundred above stock) to compensate for a slight loads put on the motor at idle.
While I have 100% confidence it my plan I am smart enough to understand that what makes sense on paper doesn't always work out.
You make some valid points and thank your for being an adult and fellow racer to explain the potential issues. When I get the motor put together we will see what happens. If your suspicions are correct then I will see about incorporating and IAC or worse case admit defeat to the tune of $20 or less and buy a TB.
I see worse case scenario I will have to set idle slightly high(2-3 hundred above stock) to compensate for a slight loads put on the motor at idle.
While I have 100% confidence it my plan I am smart enough to understand that what makes sense on paper doesn't always work out.
Last edited by custm2500; 02-13-2011 at 08:59 AM.
02-13-2011, 10:04 AM
#70
This cylinder of steel has been sitting in our shop for 2-3 years if not longer. Our shop is by no means sealed and ranges in temp exactly like outside. In the winter it is heated slightly but never gets warmer then 55 and the heat is shut off at night and almost instantly get down to the ambient temp. There is not a single sign of rust on the cylinder so I highly doubt it will magically star rusting when it is under the hood of my truck and will never see a rainy day outside.
There is moisture in the air but not enough to cause any rusting issues.The TB will never be at a point it makes excess moisture condense on it.
There is moisture in the air but not enough to cause any rusting issues.The TB will never be at a point it makes excess moisture condense on it.
( and yes I misspelled some stuff, I don't care.)