Solid front axle swap
02-10-2008, 10:27 PM
#53
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Ok, being someone who has done multiple SAS'd vehicles.
First off your 2wd. That needs to change obviously...
In a nut shell...
1. T Case, and cross member. May I suggest a manual one to make it simple?
2. Drive Shafts front and rear.
3. Front Axle, Dana 44 should be fine unless your going real big. Chevy is driver drop right?
4. Gears to match rear axle...
5. SAS kit, tons of people make them.
6. High Steer is a must for a daily driver.
7. Tires... and such.
Its really not that hard. It looks like alot of work but its just time consuming. And IFS sucks. If you swap, do Solid axle, youll end up spending the same for something much stronger. And everyone that says IFS rides better, ride in a IFS truck that is on say 35 MTs, then ride in a SAS thats done right with 35 MTs and if done right the solid axle will ride better.
Its all about doing it right, double checking your measurements and the right parts. My buddy has an SAS 04 Tacoma Crew Cab that rides better than most Cadillacs. He took the time to do it right, I was there for most of it and it turned out awesome.
Its scary cutting up your truck, but in the end its awesome to run into guys with IFS lifts and then they realize you are SFA... The look on their faces when you can flex on their hood without problems.... Priceless...
First off your 2wd. That needs to change obviously...
In a nut shell...
1. T Case, and cross member. May I suggest a manual one to make it simple?
2. Drive Shafts front and rear.
3. Front Axle, Dana 44 should be fine unless your going real big. Chevy is driver drop right?
4. Gears to match rear axle...
5. SAS kit, tons of people make them.
6. High Steer is a must for a daily driver.
7. Tires... and such.
Its really not that hard. It looks like alot of work but its just time consuming. And IFS sucks. If you swap, do Solid axle, youll end up spending the same for something much stronger. And everyone that says IFS rides better, ride in a IFS truck that is on say 35 MTs, then ride in a SAS thats done right with 35 MTs and if done right the solid axle will ride better.
Its all about doing it right, double checking your measurements and the right parts. My buddy has an SAS 04 Tacoma Crew Cab that rides better than most Cadillacs. He took the time to do it right, I was there for most of it and it turned out awesome.
Its scary cutting up your truck, but in the end its awesome to run into guys with IFS lifts and then they realize you are SFA... The look on their faces when you can flex on their hood without problems.... Priceless...
02-14-2008, 06:36 PM
#54
Ok, being someone who has done multiple SAS'd vehicles.
First off your 2wd. That needs to change obviously...
In a nut shell...
1. T Case, and cross member. May I suggest a manual one to make it simple?
2. Drive Shafts front and rear.
3. Front Axle, Dana 44 should be fine unless your going real big. Chevy is driver drop right?
4. Gears to match rear axle...
5. SAS kit, tons of people make them.
6. High Steer is a must for a daily driver.
7. Tires... and such.
Its really not that hard. It looks like alot of work but its just time consuming. And IFS sucks. If you swap, do Solid axle, youll end up spending the same for something much stronger. And everyone that says IFS rides better, ride in a IFS truck that is on say 35 MTs, then ride in a SAS thats done right with 35 MTs and if done right the solid axle will ride better.
Its all about doing it right, double checking your measurements and the right parts. My buddy has an SAS 04 Tacoma Crew Cab that rides better than most Cadillacs. He took the time to do it right, I was there for most of it and it turned out awesome.
Its scary cutting up your truck, but in the end its awesome to run into guys with IFS lifts and then they realize you are SFA... The look on their faces when you can flex on their hood without problems.... Priceless...
First off your 2wd. That needs to change obviously...
In a nut shell...
1. T Case, and cross member. May I suggest a manual one to make it simple?
2. Drive Shafts front and rear.
3. Front Axle, Dana 44 should be fine unless your going real big. Chevy is driver drop right?
4. Gears to match rear axle...
5. SAS kit, tons of people make them.
6. High Steer is a must for a daily driver.
7. Tires... and such.
Its really not that hard. It looks like alot of work but its just time consuming. And IFS sucks. If you swap, do Solid axle, youll end up spending the same for something much stronger. And everyone that says IFS rides better, ride in a IFS truck that is on say 35 MTs, then ride in a SAS thats done right with 35 MTs and if done right the solid axle will ride better.
Its all about doing it right, double checking your measurements and the right parts. My buddy has an SAS 04 Tacoma Crew Cab that rides better than most Cadillacs. He took the time to do it right, I was there for most of it and it turned out awesome.
Its scary cutting up your truck, but in the end its awesome to run into guys with IFS lifts and then they realize you are SFA... The look on their faces when you can flex on their hood without problems.... Priceless...
Here is my latest build.
Onto the 1st problem. YOUR 4.3L V6! It's the same motor I have now and it barely turns 35's. You are heavier than I am. Go any steeper in gear (4.88, 5.13) and you lose a lot of pinion strength and any sensible daily driver manners from turning outrageously high RPM's. 40's on a V6?
Maybe if you're in 4LO all the time. The 8.5" stock Chevy rear wont hold up to anything more than 37's with a V6, or 35's with a stout V8. Your new rims will need to be 8 lug. Find a nice 10.5" 14 bolt full floater from a 2500 single wheel truck and a matching high pinion Dana 60 from a Ford F250 or F350 with the same 8x6.5" bolt pattern. Now you'll have the strength, but lack the power. Find yourself a nice 5.3L or 6.0L and get to work, because you'll need at least 4.88's to turn 35's with such heavy axles (14b and hpD60). If you're looking for an easy install, leaf springs are the easiest to build a suspension around but coils will ultimately ride smoother if you set the suspension up right. With that said, I'm content with my leaf sprung suspension. It's a little stiff, but that's because I'm riding on full size springs when my truck only weighs 3400lbs. What do you expect, it's an off-road truck.
Best to find yourself a pulled V8 with matching 4wd transmission and sell the t-case if it comes with the sale. Bolt on a manual NP241 and find a manual center console shifter to hook up the linkage. This will be the easiest way to avoid all the wiring associated with push button vacuum actuated t-cases, that tend to fail anyway as years pass. Since you're starting with a 2wd, you have the choice of driver side or passenger side drop...considering there are more high pinion Dana 60's available in driver side drop...look for an NP241 out of mid 90's Tahoes and Suburbans. You'll have the same 1:1 4HI, and a decent 2.73:1 4LO for sticky situations.
A well done SFA conversion will be in the neighborhood of 6-7 grand, especially if you're starting as a 2wd. You cannot use your transmission. The main shaft isn't long enough so you'll end up taking yours apart and swapping in a 4wd main shaft or just get a 4wd transmission. No other way around it, believe me, I've checked. I'd opt for the K1500 case of older years for the strength and get the bell housing spacer to have it mate up with the newer Gen III motors. With the right gearing, you could have 37's with ease and still pull mid 16's for gas mileage...with a V8. Don't expect the V6 to get any better than 13-14 in your truck with tall tires. ABS will need to go, and you'll probably have to change master cylinders and plumb new brake lines.
A SFA conversion is not for the guy who goes out and off-roads once a year. It's quite an investment to do and just keep it on the highway. I use mine as a daily driver but I live 4 miles from a huge off-road park and I'm on the trails every weekend. If you need any ideas on the suspension, just ask I'll try to check in here whenever I get time.
02-14-2008, 06:45 PM
#55
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Damn Nice Build!! That lineX on the lower body? you nailed everything he needs to do on the button. I have no exsperience with an S-10 but couldnt he run a divoreced transfer case and keep his stock tranny? not like it would hold up very long I guess
02-14-2008, 06:58 PM
#56
The divorce rate is high enough. (pun intended)
No need really, I can't imagine a full size truck on 40's needing a lowered T-case unless the owner is afraid of cutting up the fenders a bit and goes taller with the suspension than needed to clear the tires. A CV-joint at the transfer case on both ends will cover plenty of driveline angularity up to 35 degrees...which in terms of a well done full size SFA conversion means 42" tires or so.
If 40" tires are on the agenda for 20032wdsilverado, skip the gasoline engines altogether and think DuraMAX.
Edit: It's Herculiner rolled onto the rocker panels and fender lips. Saves the top half from scratches when I rub up against trees and the tires start spitting rocks.
No need really, I can't imagine a full size truck on 40's needing a lowered T-case unless the owner is afraid of cutting up the fenders a bit and goes taller with the suspension than needed to clear the tires. A CV-joint at the transfer case on both ends will cover plenty of driveline angularity up to 35 degrees...which in terms of a well done full size SFA conversion means 42" tires or so.
If 40" tires are on the agenda for 20032wdsilverado, skip the gasoline engines altogether and think DuraMAX.
Edit: It's Herculiner rolled onto the rocker panels and fender lips. Saves the top half from scratches when I rub up against trees and the tires start spitting rocks.
02-14-2008, 07:16 PM
#57
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I mentinoed the divorced case not because of angles or clearnace, but using a divoced case you could keep your 2wd tranny by running a small drive shaft to the case from the tranny, lol but yeah im looking at adding some linex to my bed and lower body panels too
02-14-2008, 07:21 PM
#58
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Ok, being someone who has done multiple SAS'd vehicles.
First off your 2wd. That needs to change obviously...
In a nut shell...
1. T Case, and cross member. May I suggest a manual one to make it simple?
2. Drive Shafts front and rear.
3. Front Axle, Dana 44 should be fine unless your going real big. Chevy is driver drop right?
4. Gears to match rear axle...
5. SAS kit, tons of people make them.
6. High Steer is a must for a daily driver.
7. Tires... and such.
Its really not that hard. It looks like alot of work but its just time consuming. And IFS sucks. If you swap, do Solid axle, youll end up spending the same for something much stronger. And everyone that says IFS rides better, ride in a IFS truck that is on say 35 MTs, then ride in a SAS thats done right with 35 MTs and if done right the solid axle will ride better.
Its all about doing it right, double checking your measurements and the right parts. My buddy has an SAS 04 Tacoma Crew Cab that rides better than most Cadillacs. He took the time to do it right, I was there for most of it and it turned out awesome.
Its scary cutting up your truck, but in the end its awesome to run into guys with IFS lifts and then they realize you are SFA... The look on their faces when you can flex on their hood without problems.... Priceless...
First off your 2wd. That needs to change obviously...
In a nut shell...
1. T Case, and cross member. May I suggest a manual one to make it simple?
2. Drive Shafts front and rear.
3. Front Axle, Dana 44 should be fine unless your going real big. Chevy is driver drop right?
4. Gears to match rear axle...
5. SAS kit, tons of people make them.
6. High Steer is a must for a daily driver.
7. Tires... and such.
Its really not that hard. It looks like alot of work but its just time consuming. And IFS sucks. If you swap, do Solid axle, youll end up spending the same for something much stronger. And everyone that says IFS rides better, ride in a IFS truck that is on say 35 MTs, then ride in a SAS thats done right with 35 MTs and if done right the solid axle will ride better.
Its all about doing it right, double checking your measurements and the right parts. My buddy has an SAS 04 Tacoma Crew Cab that rides better than most Cadillacs. He took the time to do it right, I was there for most of it and it turned out awesome.
Its scary cutting up your truck, but in the end its awesome to run into guys with IFS lifts and then they realize you are SFA... The look on their faces when you can flex on their hood without problems.... Priceless...
On leafs it's not going to ride like a Caddy, it just won't (I'm not saying your friends Taco is on leafs). Soft leaf packs with thin leaves and low spring rate so you have a near no arch at ride height will give you about the best ride you can, provided you get your rear shackle swept back a fair amount. For stability I suggest you fab mounts on the axle and current swar bay end to keep it. Just add disconnect pins instead of bolts and pull them when you want to wheel. My friends call my truck a land yacht because of the constant sway-sway of the cab.
02-14-2008, 07:31 PM
#59
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The divorce rate is high enough. (pun intended)
No need really, I can't imagine a full size truck on 40's needing a lowered T-case unless the owner is afraid of cutting up the fenders a bit and goes taller with the suspension than needed to clear the tires. A CV-joint at the transfer case on both ends will cover plenty of driveline angularity up to 35 degrees...which in terms of a well done full size SFA conversion means 42" tires or so.
If 40" tires are on the agenda for 20032wdsilverado, skip the gasoline engines altogether and think DuraMAX.
Edit: It's Herculiner rolled onto the rocker panels and fender lips. Saves the top half from scratches when I rub up against trees and the tires start spitting rocks.
No need really, I can't imagine a full size truck on 40's needing a lowered T-case unless the owner is afraid of cutting up the fenders a bit and goes taller with the suspension than needed to clear the tires. A CV-joint at the transfer case on both ends will cover plenty of driveline angularity up to 35 degrees...which in terms of a well done full size SFA conversion means 42" tires or so.
If 40" tires are on the agenda for 20032wdsilverado, skip the gasoline engines altogether and think DuraMAX.
Edit: It's Herculiner rolled onto the rocker panels and fender lips. Saves the top half from scratches when I rub up against trees and the tires start spitting rocks.
The divorced t-case option is a good one, you can balance your shafts near 50/50 front and rear. The downside of a 1.96:1 low kind of sucks though, the extra .76 reduction in the NP2x1/3 cases is a big help without the expense of a doubler/Klune/stak/Atlas II. Being your situation, if you're keeping the 4.3L for the foreseable future the divorced case would be a good interim modification.
Gas motors have zero problems pulling 40's down the road, a DuraMax or even a 6BT are just going to add a whole lot more weight over the front axle and give the driver more torque than his drivetrain will handle. At least when you gear down for the torque you end up exponentially slowing your speed. Driving mine on 38's to the Con was pleasant, even up Ice House Rd.
02-14-2008, 08:15 PM
#60
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ok guys, all of you have great info, what im planning on doing is a 6.0 swap with a 4l80e or even a 6l80e if i can find one cheap enough, i may end up supercharging it. I was looking at doing a divorced NP 205 for the tcase, and most likely cv's front and rear. then, since i dont do that much wheeling, maybe once or twice a month, prolly more when i get the swap done, if i can find one for a decent price, ill pick up a hp d60, if not, then im gonna do a hp d44. and what ever size springs to fit 40s. if i can get up the nerve enough, im going to make my own kit, if not ill just buy one.
Anyways, again, thanks for all the info.
Anyways, again, thanks for all the info.