TB SS - BORLA Cat-Back
11-26-2006, 11:57 AM
#11
lol the stainless works offers a lot more than this overpriced thing. how much are you guys selling it for anyway. The stainless works you can get from a vendor for 850 shipped. and its true duals not a fake dual set up like this.
its way overpriced and many people see that. Pretty much all your paying for is a single inlet/outlet muffler. and a y which splits it and then 2.5 pipes and 2 tips and some mounting brackets. Just to pay over 600 bucks for that is insane. I looked around and cheapest i could fine is 870 shipped and that was still a lot.
its way overpriced and many people see that. Pretty much all your paying for is a single inlet/outlet muffler. and a y which splits it and then 2.5 pipes and 2 tips and some mounting brackets. Just to pay over 600 bucks for that is insane. I looked around and cheapest i could fine is 870 shipped and that was still a lot.
11-27-2006, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NORCAL TBSS
lol the stainless works offers a lot more than this overpriced thing. how much are you guys selling it for anyway. The stainless works you can get from a vendor for 850 shipped. and its true duals not a fake dual set up like this.
its way overpriced and many people see that. Pretty much all your paying for is a single inlet/outlet muffler. and a y which splits it and then 2.5 pipes and 2 tips and some mounting brackets. Just to pay over 600 bucks for that is insane. I looked around and cheapest i could fine is 870 shipped and that was still a lot.
its way overpriced and many people see that. Pretty much all your paying for is a single inlet/outlet muffler. and a y which splits it and then 2.5 pipes and 2 tips and some mounting brackets. Just to pay over 600 bucks for that is insane. I looked around and cheapest i could fine is 870 shipped and that was still a lot.
Your not going to be buying one anyway so this shouldn't matter to you. To give you a hint. The price ends up being in the same range as Corsa. The customers that have ordered understood fine
Last edited by tbyrne; 11-27-2006 at 08:51 AM.
11-27-2006, 07:08 PM
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Borla provided some very detailed info today -
We really appreciate the response we have gotten regarding our Trailblazer SS system and I wanted to personally thank the members of this forum for being so candid with their responses.
The following are a few items that need clarification:
1) Dual vs. Single - Since the Trailblazer SS is a street vehicle and is not really used for any kind of racing or "off road" use, we wanted to make sure that this sytem is street legal according to federal law. The Trailblazer SS uses 3 catalytic convertors in its exhaust and one is located at the end of a y-pipe. Accordingly, in order to make it street legal, we HAD to keep the y-pipe intact which is why there is a single pipe leading into the muffler. Since there is a point in the factory exaust where it "necks down" into a single cat, there is no way of making this system any more of a "dual" without it being federally illegal for street use. Long tube headers that remove (or replace) the factory cats are not legal for street or highway use according to FEDERAL law. Even "high flow" cats are not FEDERALLY legal for street use.
2) Price - In order to properly analyze the pricing issue we need to compare similar products. For starters, Borla's Trailblazer SS system is made entirely from T304 stainless so any comparison MUST be made with T304 as it is a much higher quality material than 409 stainless or mild steel and in turn is much more expensive. Also, the system is a split rear exit with dual pipes which utilizes much more material than a single exit. Being that T304 is so pricey this adds quite a bit to the cost of this system. Next, all Borla products are manufactured, by hand, in The U.S. making the labor portion of our cost higher than some of the companies mentioned who outsource many of their components from overseas. Also, Borla stands behind its products with a "million mile" warranty and our products are known around the world for their quality. Lastly, the system is "bolt on" and easy to install.
So, in order to make a reasonable competetive pricing comparison we will need to find a "street legal" system, that is a "split rear" exit, made entirely from T304 with a long term warranty, is a "bolt on" application and, if it matters to you, "Made in The U.S."
I am fairly certain that the competetive products previously mentioned are made primarily from 409 or are a "single" exit.
After nearly 30 years of developing and delivering some of the finest aftermarket exhaust systems available anywhere in the world, we have an excellent knowledge of this market and understand the need to provide value to our cutomers. Although our prices are traditionally higher than some competitors, Borla would not have such high brand equity and loyalty if we did not deliver a great value to our consumers. It's in our best interest to ensure that those who purchase our products are more than satisfied with the products they recieve for the money they spend. When you add up all of the features and benefits a Borla system provides, it becomes very difficult to question the value.
We also know that there is a place for cheaper systems made from inferior materials or designed to cheaper standards and we do not fault anyone for buying these systems nor do we fault anyone for making and selling them. There are different price points in virtually any product category you can find on this planet and there is good reason for this phenomenon. However, it's important to be honest with oneself about the differences when making comparisons. Borla has chosen to make the finest systems available and we pride oursleves on not "cutting corners". If price rather than value is your main concern you may decide to purchase a different system and we understand this.
3) Sound Clips - From our FAQ's - Q. Why don't you have sound clips on each of your part numbers?
We really wish we could just package a sound sample in a box like little shampoo bottles or the cologne ads in magazines -- you know, the ones where you pull apart the page and get to actually smell it. But the nature of our product is such that this is not possible.
Although we have posted a few sounds on our website homepage, it's really a disservice to the actual sound quality of our products because they sound so much better in person - no matter what kind of computer speakers you have.
Recorded with a microphone. There are thousands of different microphones available and they all sound different from one another. Record the same system, on the same car, with different microphones and the sound will be different. Variables of condenser mics, dynamic mics, large capsules, small capsules, tubes etc. will all affect the sound you hear on playback. Are you looking to compare microphones or an exhausts?
A compressed sound file - Sound files are normally compressed for web pages and this drastically changes the sound.
Played back through a speaker - Similar to the microphone issue listed in item #1, there are a wide variety of speakers available and they all sound different. The difference in speakers will completely change the sound you hear on playback. Add a subwoofer and it's even less of a true replication of what you will experience after you have installed a Borla on your vehicle.
We wouldn't recommend making your buying decision by listening to sound clips on the web. It's like deciding who has the best tomato sauce by recreating the smell they emit with scratch-and-sniffs. There is no substitute for tasting it.
When you hear an exhaust in person, there are certain physical properties of sound that are impossible to recreate with a sound file, such as vibration through the ground and into your inner ear. The sound you hear from our Corvette exhaust, for example, is not just what comes out of the tailpipe. It's rather a combination of sounds coming from the tailpipe tip, the engine, reflections off the ground, resonance of the cabin -- even the reverberation of sound through your body affects what you hear through your inner ear. You can't recreate all of these variables over the Internet, yet they all affect the sound experience of your exhaust. Therefore, whatever you hear over cyperspace cannot be an accurate replication of what you will hear when you install it on your Vette for real. If you're as critical of sound as we are, this is unacceptable.
Borla Performance strives for opportunities to match up against the competition in real world settings because, after nearly 30 years of success and customer feedback, we have a very good idea of what our customers are looking for.
Although it's fun (and certainly easy) to surf the web and listen to sound clips, we wouldn't recommend using this as your final decision.
I hope this response has shed some light on some of the issues presented and thanks again for all of your input and assistance.
We really appreciate the response we have gotten regarding our Trailblazer SS system and I wanted to personally thank the members of this forum for being so candid with their responses.
The following are a few items that need clarification:
1) Dual vs. Single - Since the Trailblazer SS is a street vehicle and is not really used for any kind of racing or "off road" use, we wanted to make sure that this sytem is street legal according to federal law. The Trailblazer SS uses 3 catalytic convertors in its exhaust and one is located at the end of a y-pipe. Accordingly, in order to make it street legal, we HAD to keep the y-pipe intact which is why there is a single pipe leading into the muffler. Since there is a point in the factory exaust where it "necks down" into a single cat, there is no way of making this system any more of a "dual" without it being federally illegal for street use. Long tube headers that remove (or replace) the factory cats are not legal for street or highway use according to FEDERAL law. Even "high flow" cats are not FEDERALLY legal for street use.
2) Price - In order to properly analyze the pricing issue we need to compare similar products. For starters, Borla's Trailblazer SS system is made entirely from T304 stainless so any comparison MUST be made with T304 as it is a much higher quality material than 409 stainless or mild steel and in turn is much more expensive. Also, the system is a split rear exit with dual pipes which utilizes much more material than a single exit. Being that T304 is so pricey this adds quite a bit to the cost of this system. Next, all Borla products are manufactured, by hand, in The U.S. making the labor portion of our cost higher than some of the companies mentioned who outsource many of their components from overseas. Also, Borla stands behind its products with a "million mile" warranty and our products are known around the world for their quality. Lastly, the system is "bolt on" and easy to install.
So, in order to make a reasonable competetive pricing comparison we will need to find a "street legal" system, that is a "split rear" exit, made entirely from T304 with a long term warranty, is a "bolt on" application and, if it matters to you, "Made in The U.S."
I am fairly certain that the competetive products previously mentioned are made primarily from 409 or are a "single" exit.
After nearly 30 years of developing and delivering some of the finest aftermarket exhaust systems available anywhere in the world, we have an excellent knowledge of this market and understand the need to provide value to our cutomers. Although our prices are traditionally higher than some competitors, Borla would not have such high brand equity and loyalty if we did not deliver a great value to our consumers. It's in our best interest to ensure that those who purchase our products are more than satisfied with the products they recieve for the money they spend. When you add up all of the features and benefits a Borla system provides, it becomes very difficult to question the value.
We also know that there is a place for cheaper systems made from inferior materials or designed to cheaper standards and we do not fault anyone for buying these systems nor do we fault anyone for making and selling them. There are different price points in virtually any product category you can find on this planet and there is good reason for this phenomenon. However, it's important to be honest with oneself about the differences when making comparisons. Borla has chosen to make the finest systems available and we pride oursleves on not "cutting corners". If price rather than value is your main concern you may decide to purchase a different system and we understand this.
3) Sound Clips - From our FAQ's - Q. Why don't you have sound clips on each of your part numbers?
We really wish we could just package a sound sample in a box like little shampoo bottles or the cologne ads in magazines -- you know, the ones where you pull apart the page and get to actually smell it. But the nature of our product is such that this is not possible.
Although we have posted a few sounds on our website homepage, it's really a disservice to the actual sound quality of our products because they sound so much better in person - no matter what kind of computer speakers you have.
Recorded with a microphone. There are thousands of different microphones available and they all sound different from one another. Record the same system, on the same car, with different microphones and the sound will be different. Variables of condenser mics, dynamic mics, large capsules, small capsules, tubes etc. will all affect the sound you hear on playback. Are you looking to compare microphones or an exhausts?
A compressed sound file - Sound files are normally compressed for web pages and this drastically changes the sound.
Played back through a speaker - Similar to the microphone issue listed in item #1, there are a wide variety of speakers available and they all sound different. The difference in speakers will completely change the sound you hear on playback. Add a subwoofer and it's even less of a true replication of what you will experience after you have installed a Borla on your vehicle.
We wouldn't recommend making your buying decision by listening to sound clips on the web. It's like deciding who has the best tomato sauce by recreating the smell they emit with scratch-and-sniffs. There is no substitute for tasting it.
When you hear an exhaust in person, there are certain physical properties of sound that are impossible to recreate with a sound file, such as vibration through the ground and into your inner ear. The sound you hear from our Corvette exhaust, for example, is not just what comes out of the tailpipe. It's rather a combination of sounds coming from the tailpipe tip, the engine, reflections off the ground, resonance of the cabin -- even the reverberation of sound through your body affects what you hear through your inner ear. You can't recreate all of these variables over the Internet, yet they all affect the sound experience of your exhaust. Therefore, whatever you hear over cyperspace cannot be an accurate replication of what you will hear when you install it on your Vette for real. If you're as critical of sound as we are, this is unacceptable.
Borla Performance strives for opportunities to match up against the competition in real world settings because, after nearly 30 years of success and customer feedback, we have a very good idea of what our customers are looking for.
Although it's fun (and certainly easy) to surf the web and listen to sound clips, we wouldn't recommend using this as your final decision.
I hope this response has shed some light on some of the issues presented and thanks again for all of your input and assistance.
11-27-2006, 07:52 PM
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The MagnaFlow system I believe is around $650..
I dont like the dual exit though, it just adds the the TBSS's "stubbiness" look. Having an asymmetrical bumper helps the look a bit..
I dont like the dual exit though, it just adds the the TBSS's "stubbiness" look. Having an asymmetrical bumper helps the look a bit..
12-03-2006, 10:14 AM
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Tom, maybe I missed it, but you do have to relocate the spare for this don't you?
BTW, get your order pad ready, I have to get a couple things from you.
BTW, get your order pad ready, I have to get a couple things from you.
