BLACKND

iTrader: (5)

First thing I would check would be ordinances and building permits in the areas that you would be looking to build at. That could literally make or break any project you would have in mind. I've seen some crazy ordinances and building requirements/restrictions down here, I can only imagine how things might be up where you are at. A little bit of preliminary legwork and research can save you a ton of money, time, and sanity.

That being said, you are right. Its crazy how efficient metal building structures can be designed for little cost. We design/build Church buildings down here and 90% of all is metal buildings. Most of our buildings these days can stay relatively comfortable, with no A/C in 90+ degree weather.

Buying is much easier, at least for time and sanity. But you may have to settle for something that is not exactly what you want. Building you can get the exact layout, but it can be stressful. Having a good contractor who has been there and done it helps. Make sure they know the permitting processes and don't try to screw you on that aspect.

My next house I hope to design and build myself on maybe 10+ acres. I'm hoping to maybe do metal myself with the horse barn connected to the house in the back similar to your shop design.

ForcedTQ

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, but 6" thick slab is not really needed. IF he uses a 6 sack blend with 3/4" aggregate, and #4 bar he'd probably be just fine, unless he's intending on driving a Semi on that slab. (Consult Structural engineer to determine code compliance for your area).

Agree on the vapor barrier though, 8 mil minimum (less propensity to tear under stress while your working on it), no sand/aggregate on top of it (that just makes for an area where moisture will collect making it easier to weep up into the 'crete)!!! Fill under the barrier, then throw some reinforcement layers of VB under the bar dobies, and be careful while tying the bar so that you don't get punctures in the VB. Also be carefull not to puncture the VB while placing the concrete.

ForcedTQ

iTrader: (1)

Agreed! And for a domestic hot water storage/re-circ tank set up aided by tank-less point-of-use installs as well! That way the incoming water to the insta-hot has less delta-T to get to temp, more efficient water heating.

Check out Heliodyne they've got some NICE product! Our Mechanical engineer turned us on to them, and I'm looking into what they do for commercial right now. I'm pretty sure they do residential as well. Fafco would be another possible source for solar hot water units.

1slow01Z71

iTrader: (36)

We do both structural and geotechnical design and consulting at my office so sorry but I'm well aware of what it takes to build a building.

The absolute minimum we recommend is 5", I prefer to do a little more. Further more any savings in concrete by your recommendation would be eaten up in going to the smaller 3/4" aggregate and higher cement content that you're wanting him to use. Nobody goes by "sack" count anymore anyway. With the addition of a high range water reducer and some flyash I can make a "6 sack" mix an 8000psi concrete or have no add mixtures and run a higher water to cement ratio and make that a 2500psi general fill mix. So sack count is an asinine standard to spec concrete by.

5" slab, 12" off center #4 rebar, 3000psi concrete on 8mil vapor barrier is the industry standard for non expansive soils in this sort of application.

It's hard to say what sort of subgrade prep he should do with out knowing the pi of the soil and what pvr value the building manufacturer is looking for. I assure you its not my first rodeo

ForcedTQ

iTrader: (1)

Never thought it was, glad to be rebuffed by an engineer in the field. It's just that is what I have seen placed in the field around here, guess I need to brush up on concrete spec terminology. Concrete around here is anywhere from $100 to $110 a yard, so, for us there is a slight difference in using 3/4" vs. larger aggregate. I need to educate myself on the various ways to manipulate the final compressive strength of the mix using current tech.

1slow01Z71

iTrader: (36)

Wow, concrete is really expensive over there. For 90/yd I can get a high early 8000psi concrete. Thats a straight cement mix($) with plasticizer and an accelerator add mixture for our post tension decks. Just about the most expensive mix you can get.

You also need to realize that just stating a 3/4" mix isnt precise enough. There is a very big difference between river rock and limestone. There is also two different types of common limestone used in concrete. Glen Rose limestone is the big one(aka cheap) around here which is good for regular concrete but when we need higher strengths >5000psi in general we switch to dolomite which is a harder version of limestone. General mixes containt 1.5" aggregate whereas the higher psi mixes will generally contain 3/4". Once you get into the high psi mixes the aggregate becomes the week point so using smaller aggregate increases surface area and increasing total strength.

If youve got any question about concrete Ive done lots of structural analysis, concrete strength trouble shooting and batch plan inspections.

For this guy's application, regular, run-of-the-mill concrete will be fine. That extra inch of concrete will cost him about a grand more. Keep in mind that the ACI spec for rebar that will be exposed to the elements requires 3" of concrete coverage. A 5" slab will not meet that requirement.

Being in the inspection industry I see so many failures that just a little bit more upfront money spent wouldve saved them 10 times over what they end up spending to fix the problem. Concrete and asphalt paving are the single biggest remedial subject we get called out on. Concrete paving is pretty much the same as a concrete slab on grade for a metal building. Without knowing his subgrade conditions no one can make a full recommendation on what he should do for his needs.

When I build my dad's shop this summer it will have a 2'x1' perimeter beam with 1' of select fill even though its almost all on rock with some fat clay seams. It will be on 8mil vapor barrier, #5@12"OC and 6" thick with a 3000 mix that Ive got history on that routinely breaks close to 5000.

"Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!" is my motto

Im not an engineer either, just a field hand thats been doing this **** way too long. Im slowly going to school for my civil degree though.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Schino, you and I are thinking the same things. I just got rid of my expensive "beach city" living domain in SoCal and this summer I'm gonna be looking for property either in Austin Texas, Colorado or NorCal(unfortunately...$$$). I was planning on building something very similar to what you were mentioning. I have a nice list of "green" building solutions to keep myself off the grid as much as possible. Not so much because I want to save the spotted seals but rather because it's less infrastructure and utilities expenses.
I've been leaning alot on finding old abandoned warehouses/factories too. They usually come with vast amounts of real-estate and the state of disrepair of the buildings really knocks down the prices of these lots. With some creative planning, construction and decor theres alot out there that people can do if they simply walk away from the two story house with a white picket fence idea.
Looking forward to what you do, and when I find or settle on a certain property I'll be sure and share what I find and do with the place.

LS1TRUCKGUY

iTrader: (7)

i vote build. i settled on a house because i got in a rush to move. now three years later and im looki.g at buyi g acreage and building a custom home on it. ive been slowly doing reasearch and figuring out exactly whay my wife and i want.

pasadenaman

iTrader: (3)

If you get a tankless water heater, make sure its a gas one. The electric tankless water heaters have their limits and mt 1700 sf house is needing a gas one to keep up with the 2 full baths and other water accesories.

Be sure you use a radiant barrier on your outer walls an roof if you build.