Knock knock.... who's there? KR
09-27-2006, 01:40 AM
#51
when he enters pe its taking 4 frames for him to get too desired afr I would drop
-pe map threshold to 45
-pe commanded fuel ramp in rate =0 (now its at .1 which means it takes 1 second to get pe fueling) I this should help with some
here is another strange timing incident he has a little kr but it pulls all of the timing to -1
With the small amount of timing hes running I would lean it out to 12:1 this way there is no doubt about over fueling Im just trying to eliminate possibilities
-pe map threshold to 45
-pe commanded fuel ramp in rate =0 (now its at .1 which means it takes 1 second to get pe fueling) I this should help with some
here is another strange timing incident he has a little kr but it pulls all of the timing to -1
With the small amount of timing hes running I would lean it out to 12:1 this way there is no doubt about over fueling Im just trying to eliminate possibilities
09-27-2006, 01:48 AM
#52
Originally Posted by 02sierraz71_5.3
when he enters pe its taking 4 frames for him to get too desired afr I would drop
-pe map threshold to 45
-pe commanded fuel ramp in rate =0 (now its at .1 which means it takes 1 second to get pe fueling) I this should help with some
here is another strange timing incident he has a little kr but it pulls all of the timing to -1
With the small amount of timing hes running I would lean it out to 12:1 this way there is no doubt about over fueling Im just trying to eliminate possibilities
-pe map threshold to 45
-pe commanded fuel ramp in rate =0 (now its at .1 which means it takes 1 second to get pe fueling) I this should help with some
here is another strange timing incident he has a little kr but it pulls all of the timing to -1
With the small amount of timing hes running I would lean it out to 12:1 this way there is no doubt about over fueling Im just trying to eliminate possibilities
In addition to the ramp in rate change, I'd increase the ramp out rate (to prevent knock from popping off the throttle too rapidly in boost) as well as increase the fuel step size from 0.02 to 0.1 to cause commanded AFR to drop much quicker.
09-27-2006, 05:45 AM
#53
Wow, that is a lot of stuff guys..... a little overwhelming to say the least. One thing i noticed, We still have no idea why im making all this KR....lol.
Are we absolutely sure of this?
I was going to try a point by point quote and question response here, but there are so many suggestions and possabilities presented in the short period of time since i went to bed and now.....i dont know where to begin. I feel like this is more complicated than it should be, i mean it just seems like i am overlooking something to be getting all these problems but i just dont see it. I hate to be a real PITA, but some of the suggestions you guys are making, i just dont really know how to do yet....im sorry. If we want to pick one area to start with and walk me through how to make the changes, i will do that. You all just kind of threw about 8 different scenarios out there on what my problem "might" be, and its just a little overwhelming.
Whipple noise causing the false KR? Maybe, but how would i resolve that? Pull the Whipple off? LOL. I know my IATs are high, but a couple of those WOT pulls were done with the IAT's in the 190* range and i got no KR. Thats what is really irratating me here, there is no consistancy with this knock. I can emmulate the same situation where i got KR, and the second time i try it, i get none. So should i try and increase my knock recovery? Should i adjust the PE parameters? Should i adjust the VE table or is it close enough for what we are trying to do? Am i to rich, and would that be causing any knock? Should i tune to have a leaner AFR at WOT? My burst knock tables are all zero'ed out, should make any changes there? And the "serious engine noise" thing that was mentioned......well i have a little bit of clatter at start-up (nothing unusual for these type af cast pistions i dont think) but it quickly goes away after it starts warming up. Its the issues I cant do anything about that worry me, like valve train noise, whipple noise, etc. i was really hoping it would be the gas or something in the tune that i am missing. I think that one screen shot of the timing being pulled was a shift point, also i never log with the A/C on so i dont think the clutch would have been cycling. What on earth to do now? Maybe i should start driving out to where you guys live?
I just want to remind you guys i really appreciate the time you are putting in to help me out, i know you guys have better things to do, so i really do apprciate it.
We need a smiley pulling his hair out with frustration....
Originally Posted by 02sierraz71_5.3
Now we know that his kr is false its time to answer why, Im still thinking on it.
I was going to try a point by point quote and question response here, but there are so many suggestions and possabilities presented in the short period of time since i went to bed and now.....i dont know where to begin. I feel like this is more complicated than it should be, i mean it just seems like i am overlooking something to be getting all these problems but i just dont see it. I hate to be a real PITA, but some of the suggestions you guys are making, i just dont really know how to do yet....im sorry. If we want to pick one area to start with and walk me through how to make the changes, i will do that. You all just kind of threw about 8 different scenarios out there on what my problem "might" be, and its just a little overwhelming.
Whipple noise causing the false KR? Maybe, but how would i resolve that? Pull the Whipple off? LOL. I know my IATs are high, but a couple of those WOT pulls were done with the IAT's in the 190* range and i got no KR. Thats what is really irratating me here, there is no consistancy with this knock. I can emmulate the same situation where i got KR, and the second time i try it, i get none. So should i try and increase my knock recovery? Should i adjust the PE parameters? Should i adjust the VE table or is it close enough for what we are trying to do? Am i to rich, and would that be causing any knock? Should i tune to have a leaner AFR at WOT? My burst knock tables are all zero'ed out, should make any changes there? And the "serious engine noise" thing that was mentioned......well i have a little bit of clatter at start-up (nothing unusual for these type af cast pistions i dont think) but it quickly goes away after it starts warming up. Its the issues I cant do anything about that worry me, like valve train noise, whipple noise, etc. i was really hoping it would be the gas or something in the tune that i am missing. I think that one screen shot of the timing being pulled was a shift point, also i never log with the A/C on so i dont think the clutch would have been cycling. What on earth to do now? Maybe i should start driving out to where you guys live?
I just want to remind you guys i really appreciate the time you are putting in to help me out, i know you guys have better things to do, so i really do apprciate it.We need a smiley pulling his hair out with frustration....
Last edited by Whippled 496; 09-27-2006 at 05:52 AM.
09-27-2006, 06:44 AM
#54
WOW! There is alot of reading to do here. I slept in this morning, gotta get to work, but to defend my stances... 
... yeh, 91 octane versus my 93 isn't apples to apples. I feel ya on the burst, still doesn't make me like it. It is the pcm correcting for what it sees as a huge (to big) of a transition in airflow. Like driving around at 40mph and then he nails it, in a 3 ton ride. I can tune around that, I don't need the pcm making up what it thinks should happen.
I don't see how trouble shooting knock is easy if that recovery rate is stock. The spikey cells is EXACTLY what I want to see. That means to me (granted maybe not others) that the knock sensors are driving those spikes. So, over sensitvity or real kr. Whatever it maybe, it's not hidden behind a slow slop of kr trailing off.
Ahhh, don't sweat it, see what happens when you get guys (those 2) who are really familiar with the terminology and ways of tuning into a troubleshooting scenario, info overload! 
Have you talked to EFI yet about the frequency thing? I am with justin, TM is probably the culprit with the no kr but timing pull on the moderate pulls, not the 21* **** though.
justin can you set him up with a scan config that is lookinf for all timing pulls?
... yeh, 91 octane versus my 93 isn't apples to apples. I feel ya on the burst, still doesn't make me like it. It is the pcm correcting for what it sees as a huge (to big) of a transition in airflow. Like driving around at 40mph and then he nails it, in a 3 ton ride. I can tune around that, I don't need the pcm making up what it thinks should happen.I don't see how trouble shooting knock is easy if that recovery rate is stock. The spikey cells is EXACTLY what I want to see. That means to me (granted maybe not others) that the knock sensors are driving those spikes. So, over sensitvity or real kr. Whatever it maybe, it's not hidden behind a slow slop of kr trailing off.
Originally Posted by Whippled 496
I hate to be a real PITA, but some of the suggestions you guys are making, i just dont really know how to do yet....im sorry. If we want to pick one area to start with and walk me through how to make the changes, i will do that. You all just kind of threw about 8 different scenarios out there on what my problem "might" be, and its just a little overwhelming.
Have you talked to EFI yet about the frequency thing? I am with justin, TM is probably the culprit with the no kr but timing pull on the moderate pulls, not the 21* **** though.justin can you set him up with a scan config that is lookinf for all timing pulls?
close enough
09-27-2006, 06:51 AM
#56
Originally Posted by dewmanshu
Have you talked to EFI yet about the frequency thing? I am with justin, TM is probably the culprit with the no kr but timing pull on the moderate pulls, not the 21* **** though.
justin can you set him up with a scan config that is lookinf for all timing pulls?
justin can you set him up with a scan config that is lookinf for all timing pulls?
In the next version of EFILive, i think they should just have a little checkbox at the bottom of the tuning screen that reads..."Auto eliminate all Knock". Then i could just check that box and be done with it.
09-27-2006, 07:10 AM
#57
B5954- Burst knock delta air mass-my values in this field are set to maximum
B5953- Burst knock decay multiplier-my values are all 0.9
B5949- Burst knock duration-my values are all set to 32.0 here. Max value in this field is 255.0
B5948- Burst knock timing(this table is zero'ed out)
B6207-Knock retard recovery rate-my valuesare all zero here
B6206, B6205-knock retard when in and when not in PE mode-all my values for both of these tables are zero'ed out
B6203-knock fast attack rate-my values increment from 0.7@400rpm - 3.0@6000rpm
B6202-knock fast attack gain- my values are 1.0 @ 176* - 266* ECTs. minimum value is 0 and max is 2.0.
I am unfamiliar with a lot of these tables, does anything in here look suspect to anyone?
B5953- Burst knock decay multiplier-my values are all 0.9
B5949- Burst knock duration-my values are all set to 32.0 here. Max value in this field is 255.0
B5948- Burst knock timing(this table is zero'ed out)
B6207-Knock retard recovery rate-my valuesare all zero here
B6206, B6205-knock retard when in and when not in PE mode-all my values for both of these tables are zero'ed out
B6203-knock fast attack rate-my values increment from 0.7@400rpm - 3.0@6000rpm
B6202-knock fast attack gain- my values are 1.0 @ 176* - 266* ECTs. minimum value is 0 and max is 2.0.
I am unfamiliar with a lot of these tables, does anything in here look suspect to anyone?
09-27-2006, 08:36 AM
#58
Originally Posted by dc_justin
With everything we've considered already... my money's on the filter, or something banging...
09-27-2006, 08:46 AM
#59
do me a favor and post the JUST the tune you are runnning right now. I am sorry, I am behind here, I get caught up in other **** and then I try to hop in to learn and advise in this thread and I have 3 tunes and 10 scans to look at. LOL
sending you a pm also.
sending you a pm also.
09-27-2006, 11:38 AM
#60
Originally Posted by dewmanshu
I don't see how trouble shooting knock is easy if that recovery rate is stock. The spikey cells is EXACTLY what I want to see. That means to me (granted maybe not others) that the knock sensors are driving those spikes. So, over sensitvity or real kr. Whatever it maybe, it's not hidden behind a slow slop of kr trailing off.